Can't agree with this, it's time travel, Connor could wait 30 years, and so long as he sends the Terminator back to the right point, ie the moment the T-1000 shows up in the past, it wont change anything by waiting.
Of course not. This is Quantum Physics folks, Shrodingers cat. At first, especially as the temporal distortions still exist, both time lines - one where the T-1000 kills a young Connor unopposed and the machines win, and one where the machines lose and they send the terminators back through time - the "present" - exist. Sooner rather than later, however, there will be enough observers to have "opened the box" so to speak, and the probability of sending a protector the T-800 back through time becomes too small, and the two simultaneous timelines collapse into only one: the T-1000 kills John Connor unaposed and the machines win, eradicating "the present" where the machines lose.
The T-800 has to be sent through before that happens.
Nah, time travel doesnt work that way in the terminator universe.
Oh, and how do you know that? Nobody ever went into the nitty gritty physics of temporal mechanics. The simple fact is, that that scene was written that way.
Besides, it doesnt matter when an object is sent back, what matters is when it is sent back too, and since they arrive at the same time, regradless of depature points, there is not time line where the T-800 kills connor unopposed.
Wrong, it DOES matter when an object is sent back. If you're idea is correct, the moment an object or person is sent back and alters history, everything from that point on is changed. Which means, there is NEVER a time to send anyone or anything after the first time traveler and stop them. Whoever sends the first wins automatically. The only way for you to be able to send anyone or anything after the first time traveler, is if the change isn't instantaneous, and the only way that can happen, is through quantum physics.
And it's the T-1000.
Sure, hence why Skynet bothered to build them, so it could make them learning. The problem is, that you program something in, or you make it learn. But if you make it, that it can learn, it can learn EVERYTHING that it's hardware is powerful enough to learn.
Ok, I have a huge problem with this. Learning is basically just storing information and acting based upon that, right?
No.
The terminator says he is read-only, but that's totally BS. Take for instance, the terminator asking a question to someone. If he can't write the data, then asking that question is pointless. If he asked where John was and he knew he went towards the mall, how did he retain that knowledge? He learned the knowledge and stored it. This is partly why the whole learning switch seems so redundant to me.
Again, this is not learning, this is storing information. This is something every computer can do, it's what your pc does all the time. It stores some information IN ITS MEMORY, and then runs some subroutines on that information to tell it what to do. This is simple computer behavior, and this will never allow it to grow and learn. Again, you can see this in the first Terminator, when it needs to answer someone, it physically had to dredge up all possible answers from its memory, then some process picks out the answer, and then the terminator speaks that answer. This isn't learning, this is simple computer information processing.
LEARNING is something completely different. Learning requires you to grow and adapt, to adopt different thought patterns. You and I, don't simply store information and retrieve it, and then run it through some pre-pogrammed routine, and perform what it says, our brains grow entirely new synapses and neural pathways in our brains as we add information and experience. They get connected with everything else we already know, giving us new understanding, and new ways to think. Without this, a Terminator will NEVER get new ways to think, it does nothing but information handling and running some pre-programmed programs like any other pc.
Now, there are computers built that mimic this organic minds behavior. They are called neural nets. Like organice minds, this chips grow and adapt, new connections are made. Now, this requires the chip itself, the CPU itself, to be written. It - not the memory but the CHIP - needs to be able to write, and rewrite itself, it needs to be able to grow and adapt, change as a result of its experiences. Without this feature, the chip remains static, and can only do what its initial programming tells it to do, simple input output manipulations - and can never become more than it originally was. And this is exactly what the chip being in read-only mode, versus writing mode examplifies. Again this is the CHIP we're talking about, not its memory. Writing stuff to its memory it could always do, but writing the CPU it couldn't.
The moment you have a Terminator that can learn enemy movements and anticipate them, you have a Terimantor that can achieve sentience.
The terminators were shown to be able to do this regardless of a switch.
No, they were shown NOT to be able to do this. For one thing, they LOST remember? Never in any movie have we ever seen a terminator (apart from the "good" ones, with this feature activated) been able to learn from any of its experiences. Even the T-1000 (unlike novel and comics claims to the contrary) and the T-X did not learn and adapt. They simply kept up their simpleminded, computer programmed, unable to change, program of kill John Conner/Sara Conner the primary target. To the point of them constantly ignoring their protectors until they could not ignore them, which got them destroyed in the end. If they were able to learn, they would have prioritized the termination of their protectors somewhere along the line above the Conners, once they learned that the only reason the Conners keep eluding them is because of their protectors. Eliminate the protectors and the Conners didn't stand a chance. Instead they single mindedly, relentlessly, kept going after the Connors and ignoring the protectors, only just doing enough to clear the way to the Connors allowing the protectors to continuously get up, and interfere again and again.
1. I doubt a single terminator could do such a thing.
Most people would doubt the same of a single stationary super computer, it managed pretty well though.
2. This implies predestination, which cannot apply to T2. They definitely changed the future, and while they may not have stopped Skynet, the idea was that the future was not completely set in stone. The John from the future would only remember such a thing if in his timeline he also had a T-800 from the future, but at some point there had to be a timeline where John did not experience a T-800 protector from the future.
No, it does not imply predestination, it implies one can remember the past. John Connor did not send a protector back to the past to stop Skynet from ever rising, it sent a protector to the past to keep himself alive from a T-1000. The John Connor of that future doesn't care about changing the past, it wants to preserve it, because now they won.
3. This scene was never filmed though, so you can't exactly accept it lest we accept the ending where Skynet never came about, which would nullify this whole show. Again, the scene makes no sense with the whole predestination thing since T2's time travel theories totally contradicted T1's paradox.
I disagree. We are discussing the series possibilities with this learning thing, a filmed scene removed from the film and the heavy similarites the series has created, if not downright the same, with the way their skulls and their chip access with that scene not in the film. The moment your discussing that, you have to take into account, somewhat, the other scenes not put in the film, otherwise you can quit the entire discussion altogether by simply saying the scene wasn't in the move, period.
Time travel in the context of Terminator is flawed anyways. If the past were truly malleable, the instant something were sent back it would probably change things instantaneously.
No, this is where quantum physics and shrodingers cat to come into play.
If it's not instant, then the catching up could only go as fast as the speed of plot. If there was enough time to figure out how to reprogram a terminator and send it back, John was probably aware of the chip as well and could turn it on.
The speed of plot, is that there is not enough time, or we don't get the young John Connor and Sara Connor remove the chip, enable its learning capabilities, and get John to take charge for the first time, telling Sara not to smash the chip-scene.
So the Terminator in T1 was originally programmed with replies like "Fuck you, asshole?" Those seemed like learned behaviors to me. And see my above statement on what exactly constitutes learning. In the deleted scene you spoke of, the terminator says they are set to read-only! How do you write or file information if you're set to read-only? If learning only involves how one is affected by interaction with the world, then the terminator in T2 learned virtually nothing.
Again, see above. Writing to memory, and the chip itself being able to write are two entirely different things. And no, the "Fuck you, asshole?" was entirely NOT learned. It simply dredged up all possible responses from its memory, then some type of subroutine chose which response, and the Terminate spoke this response. This is exactly NOT learning, this is simply input, manipulate data, and output behavior of any old computer, with a static unable to learn cpu. There's no learning involved at all.
Of course he didn't create her. He took a Terminator built by Skynet and reprogrammed her as best he could.
Then I'm not sure why that line has popped up in the show. We'll have to wait and see more on her back story.
Where did it pop up in the show?
There's a rule somewhere probably that says, completely beyond her control, it might even be separate to herself, "If chip and/or memory integrity is broken, reinstall backup."
I can buy this since in T2, the terminator was shown to have power redundancy. But the damage couldn't have simply been an issue of software malfunctioning. There was definitely hardware damage, which no software should be able to control.
With normal, static, unable to change and learn CPUs like the ones in your computer and the ones in Terminators which have their learning disabled, yes. Learning, "write-enabled", neural nets, CPUs, it's a whole other ball game. The CPU, the hardware, actually changes based upon what it learned in that case.
