Terminator-201 "Samson & Delilah" - Discuss/Grade <Spoiler>

[Samurai8472]

And cutting your hair??? Who gives a firetruck!?

Thomas dekker had it shaved for another role and it just grew back to a semi normal length when they were ready to shoot season 2, but for this episode he had to wear a wig. so who knows if they still would have had him cut his hair had he not done it already for that other role. Im thinking yes but maybe not as short.

It does wonder's for character development just look at Benjamin Sisko. Next season John will sport a goatee.

 

[Aragorn]

Haircut is symbolic. Sure, it's as subtle as a jackhammer, but at least it's not a soap opera where the character would talk out loud to himself and say, "I must cut my hair to show everyone I'm different now." Which is then followed by a flashback of him saying the exact same thing.

 

[Samurai8472]

Sarah Connor will shave her hair G.I Jane style for the upcoming war

 

[Darth_Daver]

Good episode. Not sure why/how did Cameron "come back" from bad, wished the storyline would linger on for one or two more eps, but still... it was good...

Agent Ellison is good as ever, Dillahunt is badass as ever (loved him since 4400).

Solid good episode.
And then just for the song, I gave it an excellent. I love Bear McCreary.

 

[Roshi]

Will see it tonight.
Since I don't want to start a new thread, maybe this one is suited for peripheral questions related to the mythos:

How do you reprogram a T-1000 model? I've never read the novels and/or comic books.

 

[zephramc]

How do you reprogram a T-1000 model?

Very carefully...

I got noth'n...

Voted average for this episode. I guess I was expecting a little more from last season's cliffhanger. Still loving the show though. I guess I'm the only one, but I was disappointed with the introduction of the T-1000 in the series. Don't get me wrong I really liked the T-1000 is T2, I guess I'd have preferred it to be the only one. Hopefully the writers won't make our beloved badass liquid metal robot into Voyager's Borg, who seemed to get their asses handed to them every other week. The I-950 that NX described would have worked better, I think, and would have made the Weaver character a little more creepy.

 

[Roshi]

I meant, since the T-1000 is liquid metal, where the hell is the chip? I guess its endoskeleton is composed of nanites mimicking organic matter and cybernetic functions.
Just wanted to know if the Terminator Expanded Universe had some kind of explanation?

 

[Sci]

Cameron continues to be the most interesting character in the show....

Why did damage to her chip cause her to revert to a "Terminate John Connor" mission? Was that the mission that she was originally programmed with before the Resistance found her and reprogrammed her?

Cameron just sort of automatically returned to "good guy" status upon being rebooted. Some have suggested that this is because SkyNet is active and overrode it. I think it's something else more complex, though.

Could it be that Cameron Phillips is the first Terminator that's actually sentient, capable of genuinely free will? The first Terminator capable of choosing to disregard its own programming in favor of new goals that it chooses for itself? If so, perhaps she reverted back to programming when damaged because whatever process it is that grants her free will was temporarily incapacitated in the explosion -- the machine equivalent of the human who suffers temporary brain damage affecting personality.

Just a thought.

The "I love you" moment was heartwrenching. I watched that again and tried to figure out if that was just "Bad Cameron" trying to manipulate John or if that was "Good Cameron" honestly reasserting herself. It's PROBABLY the former, of course, but it would be an interesting twist if the shock of getting pinned by the trucks actually DID let "Good Cameron" reassert her personality.

Either way, Cameron obviously is aware of John's feelings for her. Does she -- in her non-out-to-kill-John-Connor state of mind -- possess the capacity to reciprocate? Can a machine fall in love?

I dunno. I've always felt that the T-800 in Terminator 2 spontaneously evolved, developing the capacity to experience genuine emotion and free will. "I know now why you cry," he'd said; a Terminator without such a spontaneous evolution never would, no matter how much time it spent around Humans. Maybe Cameron's the same way?

That ol' John Connor, just charming the murderous socks off of those Terminators....

 

[amalie]

I thought it was a good opening to the season although I felt my mind wandering a bit when Catherine Weaves scenes were on. I haven't really warmed to that character yet but hopefully she'll grow on me.

I absolutely love Cameron! The scene where she has her Hal moment was brilliant. John is improvining, I loved the rift showing between him and Sarah and he seems to be growing up a bit.

Looking forward to next week

 

[Booji]

yeay for a T-1000 debut! Boo for them wasting a T-1000 on Shirly Manson. :\
Am I the only one who hated the slo-mo in the beginning? I hate when they use slo-mo in action scenes...

Agreed! I don't think that opening quite worked. Manson can't act at all. Her music also stinks.

Otherwise, it was a good episode. No great, but it was fun.

 

[John Picard]

Above average. Very good episode, but I can do without the T-1000. I view it as a crutch.

Why can't season premieres be 2 hours anymore One hour isn't enough time to flesh out and set up a good story!

 

[ATimson]

The "I love you" moment was heartwrenching. I watched that again and tried to figure out if that was just "Bad Cameron" trying to manipulate John or if that was "Good Cameron" honestly reasserting herself. It's PROBABLY the former, of course, but it would be an interesting twist if the shock of getting pinned by the trucks actually DID let "Good Cameron" reassert her personality.

Given her later "Don't let him do that again" speech, I don't think it was "good Cameron".

 

[nx1701g]

How do you reprogram a T-1000 model? I've never read the novels and/or comic books.

The T-1000 cannot be reprogramed by the Resistance and they're very hard to capture to do so. The design consists not of one chip, but millions. Each nanite contains an individual processor chip (which is why Skynet is so afraid of it because it's thinking power rivals the Cheyenne Mountain processor).

 

[nx1701g]

Why did damage to her chip cause her to revert to a "Terminate John Connor" mission?

In Gnothi Seauton Cameron told Sarah and John that Skynet had designed each Terminator with a primary mission to terminate John Connor. Cameron had an advantage over her counterparts though because she knew what he looked like. If John Connor was discovered it, supposedly, overrides all other mission objectives and assigns him as the primary mission.

Was that the mission that she was originally programmed with before the Resistance found her and reprogrammed her?

It could be. Cameron's backstory is going to be explored in episode four.

Could it be that Cameron Phillips is the first Terminator that's actually sentient, capable of genuinely free will? The first Terminator capable of choosing to disregard its own programming in favor of new goals that it chooses for itself? If so, perhaps she reverted back to programming when damaged because whatever process it is that grants her free will was temporarily incapacitated in the explosion -- the machine equivalent of the human who suffers temporary brain damage affecting personality.

Actually, going with the dialogue about The Turk in the episode, I could see this happening. She was designed to walk against the light as the T-1000 said. Though there have been other Terminators previously who were sentient.

Spoiler: Just a theory

Several people think that Cameron is a Human/Terminator hybrid. More to the point they believe that she had been installed with the memories of someone who was close to John in the future (wife or child even). Also, Cameron is supposed to be very protective of John this season and jealous.

 

[Idoliside]

Awesome episode. I had no idea that Shirley Manson would even appear, let alone be a T-1000! So cool...

 

[TheArsenal]

True, there was some indication of a fledgling storyline with the new english redheaded sexpot, but it looks to be very cheesy from the looks of it.

She's a Scot.

When she first appeared, I wasn't too taken with her as a character either. I have little patience for the overarching analogies that TV/movie villains are so fond of "[paraphrasing]: look at them down there, like little ants, so orderly ..." and so on. But her reveal as a Terminator was a nice surprise for me, and her actions viewed through that revelation made her interesting.

There was little suspense as to whether John was going to burn Cameron, but I thought they did a good job with making that moment as interesting as possible given a predetermined outcome. I also thought it was a nice touch that Cameron warned Sarah if she were to ever go bad again, to not bring her back.

Above Average.

 

[Agent Richard07]

One thought I had was that they were going to burn Cameron's body and then put the chip into another terminator like her at some point.

 

[nx1701g]

^ I'm not too sure that people would accept that. I could see them saying that it was a Shark Jumping moment. Then again people have been saying Cameron's declaration of love for John was on some boards.

I still think that Cameron is different because she's been sent back before and lived through Judgment Day and helped the Resistance. Terminator endoskins don't age so she would look like Cameron forever, and their powercells last a minimum of 120 years (and that was a nonrefitted unit). I think that Cameron has been alive for a minimum of 25 to 27 years - accounding for the Future War and living through it once already, the jump back (twice so I'll round that up to a year), a rough estimate of 4 years active working for Skynet, and the initial time jump.

 

[MNM]

I loved thsi episode, quite possibly my favourite so far, ahd no problem giving it an "excellent" rating. That said, I'm not hugely convinced on Manson's acting ability.

 

[nx1701g]

^ I'm attributing her acting ability to the T-1000 trying to mimic human actions.