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"Before Dishonor"- My Review & Opinion-Spoilers

I just finished BD a few hours ago. It was good...not great and not quite up to the standard of the current Star Trek book scene. But it was an enjoyable read, nonetheless. It had its fair share of fanwank, but come on, doesn't most all of PAD's work? Vendetta, Q-in-Law, Q-Squared...I don't want fanwank in all my books, but every now and again is fine. I'm looking forward to GTTS and the Destiny trilogy to see where things go from here...
 
... I agree with Kadohata's reasons for the "mutiny" and think the other characters were unfairly painted in a bad light by Christopher in the next book.

I agree with the reasons for the mutiny too. However the way it was written was, IMO, piss-poor. The parts leading up to it foreshadowed it in the wrong way, by showing a lot of mistrust among the crew. Technically the mutiny wasn't a mutiny by definition, but due to the lead-in it read like "OH! Thank God, now we have a reason to mutiny!! Let's do this!" Instead of the serious situation it was supposed to be, where Picard was misunderstood and appeared to be some sort of maverick, and the admiralty ordered his subordinates to take over. This should have been an "oh shit" moment, not an "oh yes" one.

As for GTtS, I disagree, I think this did much to try to redeem them. T'Lana especially.
 
I think the mutiny was handled well. And I think Peter David set it up nicely with the "growing mistrust" between Picard (who was relying too heavily on his "old guard" of Crusher, LaForge, and Worf) and his new officers.
 
As for GTtS, I disagree, I think this did much to try to redeem them. T'Lana especially.

I've said it before and I'll say it again. The fact that the two characters who remained unapologetic about their actions were shooved out the door. Only Kadohata who borderline wussed out of taking the blame remained on the Enterprise. I might be alone, but that felt like a cop out. The sheer fact that there were some crewmembers on the Enterprise that weren't behaving like a cosy family and who were willing to go up against Picard was a refreshing change, and something that felt largely dropped in GTTS.

T'Lana, out of the three new characters, had a great deal of potential to be developed more than she was whereas now Kadohata's been wussified she's just 'excellent scientist who happens to be a mom'.

IMHO, if Picard was willing to seperate First Contact Specialist from the position of Counselor (T'Lana's job taken over by T'Rys and Hagel) and to change the duty specifications of someone else (Kadohata's duties now carried out by her and by Elfiki), it was perfectly viable for T'Lana to stay onboard purely in capacity as a counselor and for T'Rys to come onboard anyway in GTTS as a Contact Specialist.

I know Christopher's reasons for not doing it, he's said them before, but I still disagree. Hopefully the new characters will proove to be as interesting as the ones we've lost could have and should have been.
 
As for GTtS, I disagree, I think this did much to try to redeem them. T'Lana especially.

I've said it before and I'll say it again. The fact that the two characters who remained unapologetic about their actions were shooved out the door. Only Kadohata who borderline wussed out of taking the blame remained on the Enterprise.

As I've said before, T'Lana's departure was established at the end of Before Dishonor. I would've kept her given my druthers; but the choice had already been made, so all I could do was try to redeem her in the single scene I could manage to include. And after the way Leybenzon behaved in BD, it was pretty much a foregone conclusion that he'd never be able to work alongside Picard and the others. Heck, I went easy on Leybenzon by establishing that he'd stayed with the ship for three months after BD rather than immediately being kicked out or requesting a transfer. At least he tried to make it work for a while. Which is actually softening him from the extreme insubordinate behavior he showed in BD.

I might be alone, but that felt like a cop out. The sheer fact that there were some crewmembers on the Enterprise that weren't behaving like a cosy family and who were willing to go up against Picard was a refreshing change, and something that felt largely dropped in GTTS.

There's a difference between healthy disagreement among a crew and outright hostility and insubordination. It's got nothing to do with being a "cozy family" -- the way Leybenzon behaved toward his commanding officer was simply unacceptable in a rank-based organization. It went too far. It's possible to disagree with one's commanding officer without showing outright contempt or disobedience, but Leybenzon and T'Lana both crossed that line. Kadohata only removed Picard from command because she was following the admiralty's orders, but those two did it because they didn't respect or trust Picard, and they couldn't work with him without respect or trust.

And I disagree that the GTTS crew lacked people who could stand up to Picard. Guinan sure as hell put him in his place, and Beverly was pushing him to question his assumptions and attitudes throughout the book. Of course, those were more as a friend and a wife than as members of his crew, and Guinan's gone now. But Picard has always been a captain who invites the opinions of his crew, and I'm sure that Worf has it in him to be his own man and disagree with Picard when he feels it's right. But he would disagree respectfully and within the bounds of duty.


IMHO, if Picard was willing to seperate First Contact Specialist from the position of Counselor (T'Lana's job taken over by T'Rys and Hagel) and to change the duty specifications of someone else (Kadohata's duties now carried out by her and by Elfiki), it was perfectly viable for T'Lana to stay onboard purely in capacity as a counselor and for T'Rys to come onboard anyway in GTTS as a Contact Specialist.

No, it wouldn't have been viable, because T'Lana's behavior in BD proved, even to her, that she was no longer qualified to be a counselor. She lost her ability to question herself, and counseling is all about helping people learn that skill. She couldn't be competent to counsel others until she overcame her own borderline clinical narcissism.

Then again, I did have three months between BD and GTTS, so maybe I could've brought her back after three months of intensive therapy. But that would've meant forcing Dave to change his Destiny outline to re-include her, and that would've made his already difficult job harder, and I didn't want to do that.
 
I know Christopher's reasons for not doing it, he's said them before, but I still disagree. Hopefully the new characters will proove to be as interesting as the ones we've lost could have and should have been.

Christopher, you didn't need to repost what you'd reposted before as I have heard all your reasonings and I disagree with a lot of what you wrote. We disagree, we disagreed before and we'll still disagree after this and I stated it in my post.

I'm not even going to bother replying to your post because we've had the same disagreement on these points before and obviously neither of us are going to change our thoughts.

It's a shame, though, because I actually think GTTS is a good novel despite how T'Lana was handled and how Kadohata was wussified.
 
Uhm... huh? Christopher has stated--at least twice-- that it wasn't his decision. He had to work with had already been established-- both before and after his book. Since T'Lana and Leybenzon were not in the already outlined and approved Destiny, and Kadohata was, that is the way his book had to go.
 
I'm not saying Christopher had much choice in whether it was done and I've never said otherwise, I just think the character could have been and should have been handled better (kept on the Enterprise and eventually redeems herself by sacrificing herself to save the ship, perhaps).

But I do think it was a bad decision for Clark to go in.
 
I'm not even going to bother replying to your post
Thank you for the post letting us know you're not going to post in reply to the earlier post. Should you opt not to post in reply to this current post, please indicate so in your next post.
 
Heh. I meant not reply to what he's actually said. Or else we'll keep going round in circles.
 
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