Zombie question?

[Mike Farley]

what do zombies do once they have had there fill of eating? They don't digest the food. there is but so much space in the human stomach. I know it's a silly question but if any body could answer it, it's this forum

Well, did you ever think about what, "in universe," zombies really are? After seeing a few zombie movies in recent years, the idea popped into my head, and (as anyone who knows me knows ABOUT me) I had no real choice but to try to come up with a rational justification for what "zombies" are.

There are really only two possible explanations... they're either purely supernatural, or there's some scientific basis for what they are.

Well, if they're purely supernatural, then there's no real point in trying to understand them or get away from them, huh? There's not much to be gained by trying to understand "magic," so I'll leave that explanation alone and go on to the "what if they existed in the real world" version.

So, what is a zombie? It's a reanimated human (or other animal) body. Well, "reanimation" implies that there's SOMETHING working there, doesn't it? There may not be life, as we think of it, but there's something happening to cause muscles to operate, to keep joints from drying out and locking up, to keep rigor-mortis from occurring. The delicate internal tissues which allow for vision, hearing, and smell, must still be functional.

And this gets back to "What is a zombie?" A zombie is a human body which has been "reactivated," but only in part. Tissues which are not necessary for continual functioning (skin, etc) decompose, but other tissues remain active and functional (muscles, joint tissues, sense organs, etc).

You'll also note that the tissues that decay, as mentioned above, seem to deteriorate much faster than they would in "real life" dead people. (Eyes, honestly, are almost always the FIRST part to rot out... while the skin is relatively unaltered except in terms of blood-based coloration.) Yet we see massive skin deterioration in "zombies" long before we'd be likely to see that in a real corpse (unless it was in a swamp, I guess!)

Now... look at the BEHAVIOR of zombies. They are driven to eat... but not to eat cows, or dogs, or green beans... or each other. They have a very simple "program" which says "find living humans, and kill them."

That's a remarkably odd behavior... something that makes no sense when looked at as a natural phenomenon. But... as a DESIGNED function... suddenly it makes a LOT of sense.

Suppose an alien species wanted to move in here and take over our planet. And suppose that they were, say, 500 years more advanced than we are. Maybe they've developed nano-technology to the point where they can have "hive" nanobots which function almost in a biological fashion. Suppose that they want our cities intact, and our environment intact as well... but they don't want US around.

Well, they could "invade" in a conventional sense, but that would be pretty inefficient and very risky. They could attempt to infiltrate, but that would be subject to lots of risk as well.

Now, suppose that they developed a nano-technology "microbe" that was able to self-replicate out of biological materials. These devices could network with each other as well... so while a single one would be quite stupid, they'd be able to form a pretty advanced "neural network" when operating in parallel.

Suppose that they were programmed not just to kill people through "disease" but to turn the "killed" persons into a more effective vector for transmission. The nanobots feed the existing tissues, maintaining operation only in the "useful" ones, while feeding off other tissues (explaining the rapid skin deterioration).

The "body" would be a PUPPET, nothing more... controlled by extremely advanced alien technology.

Now, "in-universe," you'd have seen a number of trial runs of this infectant over time. Early ones would have been slow and stupid, but over time, the technology would advance, and the "vectors of infection" would be far more effective (leading to the high-energy-level zombies seen in some more recent flicks).

They'd be programmed to survive only on certain DNA... specifically, human DNA. Once there was no further supply of live human DNA, the "vectors" would be consumed by their nanobots, and once that was gone, the nanobots would themselves shut down and decompose.

So, a year later, the "invaders" would show up, finding a ready-to-populate planet, complete with lots of infrastructure, a thriving ecosystem, no "war damage," and so forth.

An IDEAL solution... when viewed from an "invader's" standpoint... isn't it?

So...PLAN 9 FROM OUTER SPACE with more modern science concepts. And no Bela?

 

[Meat Tenderizer]

what do zombies do once they have had there fill of eating? They don't digest the food. there is but so much space in the human stomach. I know it's a silly question but if any body could answer it, it's this forum

Zombies are a thing I never try to understand.

 

[Cary L. Brown]

So...PLAN 9 FROM OUTER SPACE with more modern science concepts. And no Bela?

Ya know, I've never actually seen that, though I may see it one of these days, since "Rifftrax" is now selling two different "riffed" versions of it on their site now. I've heard it's one of the "worst movies ever made" but bad movies can be fun if you take 'em the right way (something I first learned years ago with "Attack of the Killer Tomatoes!")

When I saw the remade "Dawn of the Dead," I basically took this as being the "final, and most successful" implementation of this invasion plan. All the prior versions ended up more like "Sean of the Dead."

 

[Zachary Smith]

My theory is that there is some elemental, perhaps radioactive, source of energy that activates cells while by-passing the normal bio-electrical pathways. Adenosine tri-phosphate and normal glucosal systems remain dormant while the nucleus of the cell is energized by this mysterious energy. It is, in all actuality, revitalization and reanimation of otherwise "dead" tissues via an alternative energy pathway.

The problem is the process is incomplete. Whatever this energy source may be, while it is sufficient to activate the basic cell processes, it is NOT strong enough to render them fully functioning. A zombie may move but it does not live. It may react but it does not reason as the higher function systems are NOT restored. My belief is also that it is precisely due to this low level of energy that the cells CRAVE more energy and thus the zombie's "physiology" reacts with a sense of urgent and rampant "hunger". Why this hunger would focus on a desire for human flesh is unknown.

As to the apparent action of zombies "decaying" quickly, one must remember that micro-trauma occurs to the human body every time it moves. Muscles and skin are stretched and tear, imperceptable to the normal "living" body-unless grossly over-utilitized. In the case of the zombie, however, the healing reaction is non-responsive. Every movement causes the body and structure of the zombie to incur more damage and there is NO healing. The damage accumulates as physical wear and tear over the hours, days, weeks, months, and years until, eventually, while the zombie brain may remain activated, the body is useless due to deterioration.

(Fast zombies, BTW, are bullshit and make NO sense at all--cannot even be rationalized in any sensible fashion)

 

[FordSVT]

^Unless it's a virus or something that causes zombie-like behaviour, as in the 28 Days.. movies. But they aren't true zombies, so I agree with you.

 

[mostly_nameless]

Well, here's one theory on why zombies eat people:

Maybe they get their two basic physical imperatives (hunger and mating) confused in their shortcircuited rotting little brains so they can't discern different types of desire, so they just eat everything and everybody.

(I didn't say it was a good theory.)

 

[nx1701g]

^Unless it's a virus or something that causes zombie-like behaviour, as in the 28 Days.. movies. But they aren't true zombies, so I agree with you.

Well as of 28 Weeks Later they are now Zombies (the director admits this now).

 

[Immolatus]

^Unless it's a virus or something that causes zombie-like behaviour, as in the 28 Days.. movies. But they aren't true zombies, so I agree with you.

Well as of 28 Weeks Later they are now Zombies (the director admits this now).

how are they zombies? a bullet to the heart brings them down, they starve to death

 

[Ethros]

While on the topic, I always wondered watching Romero films if Zombies have super sharp teeth or something? They seem to bite into human flesh as if it were hot butter. Sometimes even right through two layers of clothing too

I suppose I haven't, and would rather not, think about it. Is live human flesh that easy to just bite into and rip off with normal human teeth?

 

[Cary L. Brown]

While on the topic, I always wondered watching Romero films if Zombies have super sharp teeth or something? They seem to bite into human flesh as if it were hot butter. Sometimes even right through two layers of clothing too

I suppose I haven't, and would rather not, think about it. Is live human flesh that easy to just bite into and rip off with normal human teeth?

Well, just consider your ability to bite into a piece of well-cooked steak, which is generally not nearly as soft as "raw" human tissue.

I'm not talking about chewing a piece that's been cut with a knife and fork. It's more like if you've ever had a "steak sandwich" and had to struggle just a little bit to get a bite of it.

The reality is that our front teeth are designed for slicing off flesh. Our canines are designed for holding the meat in-place while we take a bite, so it won't slip out from between our incisors instead of being cut. and our molars are designed for CHEWING whatever we've cut off.

Human tissue isn't particularly tough, and human skin isn't particularly tough or leathery. It's actually quite thin compared to that of most animals.

To get a better idea of this, look at any animal bite. I'm not just talking about massive great whites, I'm talking about dog bites, or racoon bites, or so forth, too. Our skin provides "a degree of protection" but we need a lot more in order to be "bite proof," don't we?"

Just a pretty small number of days ago, I became aware, through a conversation on this very BBS, of some advancements which have been made in flexible body armor, involving the use of "shear fluids." Yesterday, I attended a technology presentation on that class of materials through my job. In order to be "bite proof" from zombies, you'd need plenty of tough "extra skin" layers.

 

[nx1701g]

^Unless it's a virus or something that causes zombie-like behaviour, as in the 28 Days.. movies. But they aren't true zombies, so I agree with you.

Well as of 28 Weeks Later they are now Zombies (the director admits this now).

how are they zombies? a bullet to the heart brings them down, they starve to death

Members of the rage infected survived being cut in half by the helicopter. There were some seen with severe damage even prior to that to their bodies. One can be seen (before the Helicopter scene) with half of his torso missing. Some are missing arms and other body features.

Also, not in all Zombie media does it require a direct brain shot to kill a Zombie. There are some in which any impact could kill a zombie if there were enough (sort of like an enhanced form of Rabies).

 

[darkshadow0001]

The question will never be answered as zombies never have thier fill of eating. They just keep eating as long as there is food available. Once the food is gone, they go back to thier shambling state of undeadness.

Yep. They keep making sure that every living human they encounter becomes a zombie themselves. I don't think there is a limit.

 

[Cary L. Brown]

The question will never be answered as zombies never have thier fill of eating. They just keep eating as long as there is food available. Once the food is gone, they go back to thier shambling state of undeadness.

Yep. They keep making sure that every living human they encounter becomes a zombie themselves. I don't think there is a limit.

And that's why I draw the conclusion I made earlier. There's no form of life that follows that same mechanism... there's no "biological imperitive" to drive it. It's something that could only exist as a "programmed imperitive" with the sole motivation to be to destroy the human race.

It's a common thing in zombie flicks, though not in ALL cases, that these creatures aren't interested in other forms of life... or in dead tissue. Only in still-living people or recently killed people (where the cells themselves are still living, if no longer "organized" as they are in a living person).

It's the whole thing... the utter illogic of it... which is what causes me to see "alien plot" at the center of EVERY "zombie" flick. Well, "28 Days" and its sequel were different... but as discussed already, the one thing that they never claim in those flicks is that these people are actually "dead." Only "horribly diseased."

 

[Derishton]

It's the whole thing... the utter illogic of it... which is what causes me to see "alien plot" at the center of EVERY "zombie" flick. Well, "28 Days" and its sequel were different... but as discussed already, the one thing that they never claim in those flicks is that these people are actually "dead." Only "horribly diseased."

The understandably obscure Days of Darkness goes in the direction of alien plot.

 

[Silvercrest]

what do zombies do once they have had there fill of eating? They don't digest the food. there is but so much space in the human stomach. I know it's a silly question but if any body could answer it, it's this forum

Well, did you ever think about what, "in universe," zombies really are? After seeing a few zombie movies in recent years, the idea popped into my head, and (as anyone who knows me knows ABOUT me) I had no real choice but to try to come up with a rational justification for what "zombies" are.

There are really only two possible explanations... they're either purely supernatural, or there's some scientific basis for what they are.

Well, if they're purely supernatural, then there's no real point in trying to understand them or get away from them, huh? There's not much to be gained by trying to understand "magic," so I'll leave that explanation alone and go on to the "what if they existed in the real world" version.

So, what is a zombie? It's a reanimated human (or other animal) body. Well, "reanimation" implies that there's SOMETHING working there, doesn't it? There may not be life, as we think of it, but there's something happening to cause muscles to operate, to keep joints from drying out and locking up, to keep rigor-mortis from occurring. The delicate internal tissues which allow for vision, hearing, and smell, must still be functional.

And this gets back to "What is a zombie?" A zombie is a human body which has been "reactivated," but only in part. Tissues which are not necessary for continual functioning (skin, etc) decompose, but other tissues remain active and functional (muscles, joint tissues, sense organs, etc).

You'll also note that the tissues that decay, as mentioned above, seem to deteriorate much faster than they would in "real life" dead people. (Eyes, honestly, are almost always the FIRST part to rot out... while the skin is relatively unaltered except in terms of blood-based coloration.) Yet we see massive skin deterioration in "zombies" long before we'd be likely to see that in a real corpse (unless it was in a swamp, I guess!)

Now... look at the BEHAVIOR of zombies. They are driven to eat... but not to eat cows, or dogs, or green beans... or each other. They have a very simple "program" which says "find living humans, and kill them."

That's a remarkably odd behavior... something that makes no sense when looked at as a natural phenomenon. But... as a DESIGNED function... suddenly it makes a LOT of sense.

Suppose an alien species wanted to move in here and take over our planet. And suppose that they were, say, 500 years more advanced than we are. Maybe they've developed nano-technology to the point where they can have "hive" nanobots which function almost in a biological fashion. Suppose that they want our cities intact, and our environment intact as well... but they don't want US around.

Well, they could "invade" in a conventional sense, but that would be pretty inefficient and very risky. They could attempt to infiltrate, but that would be subject to lots of risk as well.

Now, suppose that they developed a nano-technology "microbe" that was able to self-replicate out of biological materials. These devices could network with each other as well... so while a single one would be quite stupid, they'd be able to form a pretty advanced "neural network" when operating in parallel.

Suppose that they were programmed not just to kill people through "disease" but to turn the "killed" persons into a more effective vector for transmission. The nanobots feed the existing tissues, maintaining operation only in the "useful" ones, while feeding off other tissues (explaining the rapid skin deterioration).

The "body" would be a PUPPET, nothing more... controlled by extremely advanced alien technology.

Now, "in-universe," you'd have seen a number of trial runs of this infectant over time. Early ones would have been slow and stupid, but over time, the technology would advance, and the "vectors of infection" would be far more effective (leading to the high-energy-level zombies seen in some more recent flicks).

They'd be programmed to survive only on certain DNA... specifically, human DNA. Once there was no further supply of live human DNA, the "vectors" would be consumed by their nanobots, and once that was gone, the nanobots would themselves shut down and decompose.

So, a year later, the "invaders" would show up, finding a ready-to-populate planet, complete with lots of infrastructure, a thriving ecosystem, no "war damage," and so forth.

An IDEAL solution... when viewed from an "invader's" standpoint... isn't it?

So...PLAN 9 FROM OUTER SPACE with more modern science concepts. And no Bela?

Or "Maximum Overdrive."

 

[Immolatus]

Well as of 28 Weeks Later they are now Zombies (the director admits this now).

how are they zombies? a bullet to the heart brings them down, they starve to death

Members of the rage infected survived being cut in half by the helicopter. There were some seen with severe damage even prior to that to their bodies. One can be seen (before the Helicopter scene) with half of his torso missing. Some are missing arms and other body features.

Also, not in all Zombie media does it require a direct brain shot to kill a Zombie. There are some in which any impact could kill a zombie if there were enough (sort of like an enhanced form of Rabies).

I don't recall that scene (I'm not saying it's not there I just can't remember it). What's the point of being cut in half and "living" only to die 28 days later from hunger

 

[nx1701g]

^ They do claim that rage is different. Maybe the organs don't shut down for them? Though that still doesn't explain the infected's 'survival'.

 

[TGTheodore]

Okay, I've looked and cannot find the Universal Standards for Zombies anywhere.

Essentially, they're an undead catch-all device, defined in any particular way for the needs of a story, and give you a few extra points in Scrabble.

--Ted

 

[nx1701g]

^ There really are no specifics for Zombie characters. There are many classifications.

Romero Zombies
Voodoo Zombies

 

[Cary L. Brown]

Well, given the season, here's another good definition for zombies.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RWpU8sX10_4