Rocket Scientists Say We'll Never Reach the Stars

[Bad Bishop]

http://www.wired.com/science/space/news/2008/08/space_limits

Many believe that humanity's destiny lies with the stars. Sadly for us, rocket propulsion experts now say we may never even get out of the Solar System.

At a recent conference, rocket scientists from NASA, the U.S. Air Force and academia doused humanity's interstellar dreams in cold reality. The scientists, presenting at the Joint Propulsion Conference in Hartford, Connecticut, analyzed many of the designs for advanced propulsion that others have proposed for interstellar travel. The calculations show that, even using the most theoretical of technologies, reaching the nearest star in a human lifetime is nearly impossible.

"In those cases, you are talking about a scale of engineering that you can't even imagine," Paulo Lozano, an assistant professor of aeronautics and astronautics at the Massachusetts Institute of Technology and a conference attendee, said in a recent interview.

I'd love to know what other far-fetched theoretical technologies were considered. Anything we've never heard of?

 

[Johnny Rico]

Well, unfortunately, I believe they're right. Unless of course the whole speed of light barrier can ever be broken, and then even then, it'd still take several years to reach it, which means that even if you went there and came right back, you'd age several decades, and if the theory of relativity is really true, then time on Earth would have passed many more times over, so yeah, I believe we're stuck in our own solar system.

Which means of course, that we could still explore many of the moons of Jupitor and Saturn.

 

[Captain Euphoria]

With today's minds, no way. BUT, can any of the best scientists from 1858 have actually understood the engineering behind what it would take to invent things like the iPod, the personal computer, the internet, LCD displays... the TV!? Sure, sci-fi writers of the time came up with some really cool IDEAS but did anyone at that time really understand HOW to make them become reality? No. So to say that we'll NEVER reach the stars is to limit human possibility. Faster than light travel IS possible within the framework of what we understand of physics at this point. But, even taken from that perspective, even 150 years ago, relativity ITSELF hadn't yet been thought of. Who's to say what we'll understand or what will be fact 150 years from now? Who even knows what it will MEAN to BE human in 150 years. What would a "normal human life span" be if the ability to fully integrate the human body (or mind) with machines was discovered and became commonplace? And heck, why would so many "rocket scientists" be so short-sighted? The sound barrier was only broken 61 years ago! That's the span of ONE human lifetime. Who's to say what'll be possible 50, 100, 200, 500 years from now?

 

[IJD GAF]

Also, I think it's worth noting that it's probably not an advancement of current propulsion technology that will get us there. That is to say, if we somehow make it to the stars someday, it'll be via means we haven't yet come up with.

People thought of traveling to the moon before rocket technology took off. And I'm sure that the inventors of the steam engine would have claimed it impossible.

 

[Timewalker]

It looks like these rocket scientists don't read enough science fiction. The good stuff, I mean -- like stories about generation ships, cryogenic freeze, etc. The plain truth is that if/when we get out of the Solar System, it would be a one-way trip anyway, so why not plan for multi-generations? Everybody's so insistent on trying to circumvent relativity; why not try to make it work for us?

In other words, don't be such cottonpickin' pessimists.

 

[Romulan_spy]

I think one of the biggest obstacles to human space exploration is not technology but politics. As long as the resources of Earth are spent on wars and economic competition between nations, we are simply not going to have the sufficient resources or motivation for true space exploration and colonization. But imagine what would happen if Earth were united politically and all the resources that nations currently spend on wars could be pooled together for a common space vision? If that happened, I believe we would figure out a way to colonize the moon, Mars, other places in our solar system and eventually travel to other stars.

 

[bryce]

In related news:

"18th Century Shipbuilders Say Heaver Than Air Flight Not Possible."

 

[Alpha_Geek]

Rocket scientists... they're right in a way. If we do manage to get there, it probably won't be rockets making he push that propels us between stars, but some other technology.

Throwing conventional stuff out the back of the craft, be it hot exhaust gas, plasma, or your little brother Jeffy just won't give enough speed for the really, really long haul.

Granted we're a long way off from being able to work out that warp drive like a recent news article said may be possible. That piece said for the amount of evergy needed to get to "warp" speed, ie bending space to redice the distance while obeying Einstein, would require energy on the magnitude of totally converting the mass of Jupiter. Hell, we can't even do that to a boulder... yet.

 

[scotthm]

The plain truth is that if/when we get out of the Solar System, it would be a one-way trip anyway, so why not plan for multi-generations?

The plain truth is, there doesn't seem like there would be be very much incentive to begin such a journey.

In other words, don't be such cottonpickin' pessimists.

Why is it pessimistic to believe that we may never be visited by hostile aliens?

That piece said for the amount of evergy needed to get to "warp" speed, ie bending space to redice the distance while obeying Einstein, would require energy on the magnitude of totally converting the mass of Jupiter. Hell, we can't even do that to a boulder... yet.

And what do we do when we can, destroy Jupiter so we can visit another star? Do we destroy Saturn and Uranus for the next trip?

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[All Seeing Eye]

Anyone mentioned cryogenics yet? I'm sure we could easily get someone to the next star sytem within someones lifetime, you just freeze them for the journey.

 

[JustAFriend]

You also have to remember that as late as 1904 ( a full YEAR after the Wright Bros. flew), a number of the scientific community said that man could not and would never fly.

....pardon me while I get on a 747.....

 

[Romulan_spy]

And what do we do when we can, destroy Jupiter so we can visit another star? Do we destroy Saturn and Uranus for the next trip?

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The mass of Jupiter is simply a convenient way of measuring how much energy is required. We would obviously use a different method for getting that energy than destroying a planet, possibly some sort of reactor. Theoretically, a matter/antimatter reactor might be possible and it could generate huge amounts of energy.

 

[All Seeing Eye]

How about building huge ring like slingshot/accelerator devices and plant them along the route to Proxima Centauri, you'd set off in a space craft as fast as you could by slingshotting yourself around Jupiter or whatever and you'd cruise at huge velocity towards the next star system and enroute you'd pass through these slingshot devices that accelerate your craft even faster until eventually you're travelling at super speed and you get to proxima centauri much more quickly.

 

[USS KG5]

Anyone mentioned cryogenics yet? I'm sure we could easily get someone to the next star sytem within someones lifetime, you just freeze them for the journey.

I have just had a funny idea for a sci-fi story based on cryogenics and this thread! Thanks all!

Edit: disclaimer, its still my idea so you can't have any money.

 

[All Seeing Eye]

Anyone mentioned cryogenics yet? I'm sure we could easily get someone to the next star sytem within someones lifetime, you just freeze them for the journey.

I have just had a funny idea for a sci-fi story based on cryogenics and this thread! Thanks all!

Edit: disclaimer, its still my idea so you can't have any money.

This thread and your post is all the evidence required to sue you for stealing ideas.

 

[Deckerd]

I think their conclusions are broadly correct. It would take such a long time for any craft to get anywhere that the number of people volunteering to leave Earth forever would be small indeed. Nobody setting out would see the destination unless they were prepared to be frozen for hundreds of years (if the technology is ever 100% reliable to sustain this). I don't see a crowd lining up for that.

 

[Nerdius Maximus]

With today's minds, no way. BUT, can any of the best scientists from 1858 have actually understood the engineering behind what it would take to invent things like the iPod, the personal computer, the internet, LCD displays... the TV!? Sure, sci-fi writers of the time came up with some really cool IDEAS but did anyone at that time really understand HOW to make them become reality? No. So to say that we'll NEVER reach the stars is to limit human possibility. Faster than light travel IS possible within the framework of what we understand of physics at this point. But, even taken from that perspective, even 150 years ago, relativity ITSELF hadn't yet been thought of. Who's to say what we'll understand or what will be fact 150 years from now? Who even knows what it will MEAN to BE human in 150 years. What would a "normal human life span" be if the ability to fully integrate the human body (or mind) with machines was discovered and became commonplace? And heck, why would so many "rocket scientists" be so short-sighted? The sound barrier was only broken 61 years ago! That's the span of ONE human lifetime. Who's to say what'll be possible 50, 100, 200, 500 years from now?

My thoughts exactly. Who is to say what we're capable of ultimately achieving? 300 years ago, people would have thought running water was a result of witchcraft.

 

[Deckerd]

Faster than light travel IS possible within the framework of what we understand of physics at this point.

No, it isn't. It's within the framework of science fiction.

 

[diankra]

You also have to remember that as late as 1904 ( a full YEAR after the Wright Bros. flew), a number of the scientific community said that man could not and would never fly.

....pardon me while I get on a 747.....

That finally beats the Uk's Astronomer Royal proclaiming that space travel would never happen - a few weeks before the launch of Sputnik.

 

[scotthm]

The mass of Jupiter is simply a convenient way of measuring how much energy is required. We would obviously use a different method for getting that energy than destroying a planet

How we would generate such amounts of energy is not at all obvious.

Energy is not free, and if it takes the equivalent of one Jupiter mass of energy to perform your space warp, you'll have to find that much mass to convert it to energy.

Theoretically, a matter/antimatter reactor might be possible and it could generate huge amounts of energy.

Hypothetically speaking, where do you propose to find 1,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000 tons of anti-matter?

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