Ah, see, I'm from Canada, which as a lot of bronze medals. So I measure by total number of medals.
All you guys in the Commonwealth seem to be doing well.
2008 Olympics!
- Thread starter Turbo
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All you guys in the Commonwealth seem to be doing well.
Her name's He Kexin. She's the only that they're absolutely positive is below 16. Xinhua, the major Chinese news agency, stated that she was 13 last November in a news story they did on her after her performance at the city games (which you don't have to be 16 to compete in). A member of the Chengdou Sports Bureau gave a speech about her last year. He thought she was 13. There's a youtube clip of her from last year with the announcer saying she's 13 and online listings of her birthdate from other competitions (publishing birthdates was standard procedure) and every last one says she was born on January 1, 1994, which made her 13 last year. But no....they're all wrong and her passport is right. All the pages with He's age conveniently disappeared at the start of the olympics; the Xinhua sports page is no longer accessible (AP saved a copy) but it's all a coincidence that only her date of birth disappeared from all the sites.
That must be galling to poor Nastia. The tie breaker is basically how some arbitrary judge in the group of judges ranked her. The second lowest score after the top four are thrown out is--for some reason--the tiebreaker. It's just some random judge. It's not the head judge. They take a random judge and use his/her score as the tiebreaker.
That judge happened to rank He Kexin higher. It was ridiculous. 
For crying out loud, they have swim offs if there's a tie in swimming. They award double medals in other sports, but not in gymnastics. The IOC and FIG have no credibility. None. For crying out loud, have them do their routines again against one another if there's a tie. Do something performance related.
Jones crashes in the hurdles
American Dawn Harper sprung a huge surprise when a dramatic mistake by compatriot Lolo Jones
(Reuters) - American Lolo Jones lost control and "crashed and burned" to hand a surprise Olympic gold medal to her compatriot Dawn Harper in the women's 100 metres hurdles on Tuesday. The 26-year-old, who used her athletic and academic prowess to get her out of poverty and was favourite to win the race, finished seventh after hitting the penultimate hurdle.
"You hit a hurdle about twice a year where it affects your race," said Jones, tears welling up in her striking green eyes. "It's just a shame that it was on the biggest race of my life.
"The hurdles were just coming up very fast and I just told myself what I always tell myself, 'keep things tight'.
"But it's kind of like when you are racing a car and going max velocity and you hit a curve, either you can maintain control or you can crash and burn. Today I crashed and burned."
Harper admitted she was a surprise winner.
"You have certain people that are supposed to be the favourites," she said. "On this particular day, and at this time, you have to run your best race.
"It's anyone's race ... we do hurdles, and they come at you really fast. You have to execute your race."
GAVE SUPPORT
The 24-year-old said three-times Olympic champion Jackie Joyner-Kersee, who also comes from East St Louis and is the wife of Harper's coach Bob Kersee, had given her support.
"She sent me an email telling me 'You can do it, stay focused, it's about you. When you race on that day and that time, focus on you'," she said.
Harper did just that when Jones, who was leading the race, hit the hurdle.
"I felt something happened I didn't know how serious it was but ... you have to focus on you because if I got caught up in her, then who knows what'll happen to me," she said.
Sally McLellan was an equally surprising silver medallist for Australia and admitted that she had not believed her own prediction that she would win a medal. "I lied to you," the 21-year-old said after a photo finish separated her from bronze medallist Priscilla Lopes-Schliep. "In my heart I didn't think I'd medal. But then I did."
Jones remained kneeling on the track for a long time after the race.
"It was difficult to get back up," Jones said. "Tonight will be hard, tomorrow will be hard. I just have to get myself back up." (Additional reporting by John Ruwitch and Gene Cherry; Editing by Ed Osmond)
(For more stories visit our multimedia website "Road to Beijing" at http://www.reuters.com/news/sports/2008olympics; and see our blog at http://blogs.reuters.com/china)
Depends whether you're measuring by total number of medals or by number of gold medals...Another sailing gold for GB... keeps us above Australia in the table.
It's always been done by number of golds, traditionally. So don't go taking away our finally doing well in something
I didn't realise until yesterday that the US publish medal tables ranked by total number. Explains Temis' remark the other day about the US being top of the table.
As long as I can remember, the US media has ranked it by total medals. I could be wrong since I don't have the best memory with regards to the Olympics (the every 4 years thing makes me forget pretty quick) but it's how I've always done it and seen it done. I also strongly believe the medal count is the dumbest thing to worry about. But NBC has gotta get their ratings somehow.
-nobody
-nobody
Yes, after checking it out I believe it always has - Although interestingly not when it hosted the games, when it reverted to the IOC standard of listing by gold medals. To be honest, I think someone needs to come up with a weighting system, because both ways it's done now are stupid. Either a bronze is worth as much as a gold, or it's worth nothing. Set up a weighting system of say 1 'medal point' for a brronze, 2 for a silver and 3 for a gold. Not difficult. That sytem is used regularly at karate competitions I've been in, for example.
I like that system. It's one way, everyone can use it, and we wouldn't have this debate on which medal system is better. I think the whole concept of the medals anyway needs to be changed. There was a point brought up maybe on Radio last week that I agreed with in that what do these medals mean. You're either first, or you lose.
If I may say so, that's a very American way of looking at things. I don't mean that as an insult, just a cultural observation. I think the silver and bronze are important parts of the system, myself - there's great achievement in coming 2nd or 3rd in an Olympic final. Granted, you can argue 'what about 4th?' and you'd have a point - but the line has to be drawn somewhere and I think the current 'top three' system is pretty decent, and has the advantage of being very well established in a great many sporting arenas.
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... wait, so do you like "top three" or "winner"? It's kind of unclear from your post.
Celebrating the top three doesn't really work with sports that are between two people or two teams, though. That way you end up having to have a game for the gold medal and a game for the bronze medal... it makes it look like the top four should be celebrated.
If it was up to me, I'd give the winner one point, the second place half a point, the third place a quarter of a point, four place an eight of a point, and so on. But that's complicated and the IOC keeps insisting that it's a competition between individuals, not nations. So I guess we're stuck with everybody using the metric that gives them the advantage.
Yeh, of course. The US uses 'total medals' because it usually tops that one, we use 'most golds' because for once our gold count is respectable, Slovenia uses 'per capita medals' because it tops that one
etc etc. And I'd love someone from the IOC to explain why, if it's a competition between individuals, why everyone comes in country teams and gets a flag and anthem when they win...
Michael Phelps on the cover of Sports Illustrated wearing all eight medals.
I think those gold chains for the old ones look really cool, fwiw.
The tie breaker is basically how some arbitrary judge in the group of judges ranked her. The second lowest score after the top four are thrown out is--for some reason--the tiebreaker. It's just some random judge. It's not the head judge. They take a random judge and use his/her score as the tiebreaker.
The tiebreaker was tantamount to flipping a coin. They should have just done that...takes less time and is more transparent. It seems that this brave new world of the post-2004 "revised" judging system isn't so great either. As for He Kexin, the IOC needs to do a more thorough investigation--checking a six-month-old passport issued by the Chinese government doesn't cut it in light of the evidence suggesting she is underage. If proven underage, she should be disqualified retroactively and stripped of her medals.
As for medal count, I tend to go by total medals. I don't like how some NBC commentators feel the need to "console" an athlete for winning "only" silver or bronze. Those are still remarkable achievements.
While what you say is true regarding the achievement, a gold is still better than a silver and a silver is better than a bronze, this is pretty indisputable - total medal table ranks them all the same, so a nation with 14 bronzes trumps a nation with 13 golds. While I would argue the latter nation's athletes have achieved more.
True, which is why the whole medal count thing is rather silly in the end, since a gold in one sport isn't necessarily the same as a gold in another. I do think that total medals is better than considering just gold medals and ignoring silver and bronze entirely.
I think a reasonable compromise would be a weighted averaging system as was described earlier, but then that would be "very American," whatever that means.
I didn't say that. I championed the weighting system! I meant the concept that was raised in the post I quoted, that silver and bronze were just losers, and it should be won/didn't win. Possible my pyramid quoting was confusing, have edited to clarify.
Um No. Not even close. The third tiebreaker essentially gives the gold to the gymnast with the smaller standard of deviation in the 4 middle scores. It's not even close mathematically to flipping a coin. I don't see how it's convoluted at all at least compared to some other tiebreaking method such as the one used in Euro 2008.
The same tiebreaking system was used in the Men's vault competition yesterday and nobody gave a shit. Only in women's gymnastic can people stir up so much melodrama like this.
Dorian Thompson
I am too lazy to quote your last response to my post.
I think both Carly and Andrea though small looked no way underage. They certainly can perform as gracefully as Nastia did in these games. I mean some of women in gymnastic are naturally short which gives them an advantage. I was just arguing that being underage and small isn't a clear cut advantage because of the experience and nerve factor. The sooner China realize this the better. Though personally I like Karolyi's idea of an open competition.
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Finally found some taekwondo, courtesy of the BBC's red button service.
Two girls exchanging kicks... like white belts who can't tell the difference between sparring and one-form kicking. Jeez, it's pathetic. In Athens we had a jump-spin back-axe kick KOing competitors, and these two this morning... If either of them had put in a spin instead of just swapping groin-height (and the Swiss one is particularly bad for that) ap- and bit- chagis, it'd have been over.
Yeah, I know it's not the same watching, but really, I *have* seen better at local gradings, let alone the young turks who like to go in for competition fighting.
Oh, and their kihaps sound like they're squealing for the Beatles.
Ah, the American has livened up - a nice jumping inner crescent, high push-kick, and good throat-height side-kick - but if she'd put in a spinning back kick at the start, the Swiss girl was wide open to get knocked off the mat...
(and no, I know this type of competition has a different style - but where the Papuan vs Vietnamese bout that followed had both girls concentrating hard, so not leaving themselves open to spinning kicks, which means they're right not to have them. I guess you had to be watching to see the difference.)
Meh, and why is it always the Men's Beach Volleyball when I tune in...? Haven't the women been allowed this year?
ETA - and, bloody hell, is the ref blind? The Papuan just put in an inner elbow strike to the head! That's way illegal in this type of competition! Ah, she lost on points the Vietnamese (who also managed a nice jump-spin side-push kick. And a lovely rising outer crescent that'd qualify as a no-shadow kick in any king fu movie...) Serves her right
ETA again - Ah, Cuba vs Thailand, and this is more like it. It's a damn shame they didn't both get a point for the opening shot - the Cuban knocked the Thai down with a front kick, but the Thai put in a (sadly weak) spinning side kick as she went down!
Damn, I wouldn't mind a round or two with that Cuban... She's got a great double-kick and occasionally triple (One of my favourite moves, also)
Oops, and Thailand demonstrates why *not* to do spinning kicks as a first strike!
And she lost! She had a great opportunity when the Thai had her back to her, and didn't go in for the kill! In a "sudden-death" round when one hit of any kind will win! But no, the silly cow had to wait and go for a headshot, overreaching herself so the Thai could get a harmless - but point-scoring - mid-height kick in first.
Meh. The next round of the womens' won't be as interesting without her. Even if she was daft in the end.
The men are on next...
Two girls exchanging kicks... like white belts who can't tell the difference between sparring and one-form kicking. Jeez, it's pathetic. In Athens we had a jump-spin back-axe kick KOing competitors, and these two this morning... If either of them had put in a spin instead of just swapping groin-height (and the Swiss one is particularly bad for that) ap- and bit- chagis, it'd have been over.
Yeah, I know it's not the same watching, but really, I *have* seen better at local gradings, let alone the young turks who like to go in for competition fighting.
Oh, and their kihaps sound like they're squealing for the Beatles.
Ah, the American has livened up - a nice jumping inner crescent, high push-kick, and good throat-height side-kick - but if she'd put in a spinning back kick at the start, the Swiss girl was wide open to get knocked off the mat...
(and no, I know this type of competition has a different style - but where the Papuan vs Vietnamese bout that followed had both girls concentrating hard, so not leaving themselves open to spinning kicks, which means they're right not to have them. I guess you had to be watching to see the difference.)
Meh, and why is it always the Men's Beach Volleyball when I tune in...? Haven't the women been allowed this year?
ETA - and, bloody hell, is the ref blind? The Papuan just put in an inner elbow strike to the head! That's way illegal in this type of competition! Ah, she lost on points the Vietnamese (who also managed a nice jump-spin side-push kick. And a lovely rising outer crescent that'd qualify as a no-shadow kick in any king fu movie...) Serves her right
ETA again - Ah, Cuba vs Thailand, and this is more like it. It's a damn shame they didn't both get a point for the opening shot - the Cuban knocked the Thai down with a front kick, but the Thai put in a (sadly weak) spinning side kick as she went down!
Damn, I wouldn't mind a round or two with that Cuban... She's got a great double-kick and occasionally triple (One of my favourite moves, also)
Oops, and Thailand demonstrates why *not* to do spinning kicks as a first strike!
And she lost! She had a great opportunity when the Thai had her back to her, and didn't go in for the kill! In a "sudden-death" round when one hit of any kind will win! But no, the silly cow had to wait and go for a headshot, overreaching herself so the Thai could get a harmless - but point-scoring - mid-height kick in first.
Meh. The next round of the womens' won't be as interesting without her. Even if she was daft in the end.
The men are on next...
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Some rather unexpected insomnia has meant the night watching open water swimming and BMX racing live. The first is just a little mad - so tiring. The second is superb! Any event where the commentators draw your attention to 'MASSIVE CRASHES' can't be bad.
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