RobertScorpio
Pariah
What was the most graphic 'beating' you have ever seen on TREK. A scene where someone was totally beaten to a pulp..and when it happened, did you think it went to far???
Rob
Scorpio
Rob
Scorpio
Beat'en..to a pulp
- Thread starter RobertScorpio
- Start date
Cardassian training is greatly overratedKira beating up Damar. Totally ridiculous. We're supposed to believe that Damar can't defend himself against a woman, no matter how well trained, half his size ?
Cardassian training is greatly overratedKira beating up Damar. Totally ridiculous. We're supposed to believe that Damar can't defend himself against a woman, no matter how well trained, half his size ?
Dukat and Garak seemed to do okay hand-to-hand against all those Klingons.
RobertScorpio
Pariah
Cardassian training is greatly overratedKira beating up Damar. Totally ridiculous. We're supposed to believe that Damar can't defend himself against a woman, no matter how well trained, half his size ?
Dukat and Garak seemed to do okay hand-to-hand against all those Klingons.
Yeah but so did Sisko and Kira..humans are the toughest in the universe!!!! Not even the JEM HEDAR could take us down!!!
Rob
kira got beat up really good (or bad) by a girl in "Invasive Procedures". I mean she had the first two hits, which did nothing then this girl just flattened her.
No one takes a beating like Jonathan 'Likes it rough' Archer. See numerous Enterprise episodes.
Cardassian training is greatly overratedKira beating up Damar. Totally ridiculous. We're supposed to believe that Damar can't defend himself against a woman, no matter how well trained, half his size ?
That or the Bajoran militia training has a whole semester dedicated to "How to Hit a Cardassian Where It REALLY Hurts."
I think one of the more disturbing ones was in DSN ep Far Beyond the Stars, when Sisko as Benny Russell is beaten by the two cops, who change into Dukat and Weyoun.
Some others:
-Although comical, Kirk certainly beat Finnegan to a pulp in Shore Leave.
-The children in Miri certainly pound on Kirk pretty good with their bats and other objects, so that he's bleeding from several places.
-When the big thrall in Gamesters of Triskelion whips the hell out of Kirk.
-In Patterns of Force, the "Nazis" whip the hell out of Kirk and Spock.
-In TNG ep Descent, Pt. 1, it's quite disturbing to see Data kill one of the Borg in a homicidal rage.
-When Worf has to fight all those Jem'Hadar in DSN ep By Inferno's Light and finally has to face the toughest one, he got his ass handed to him pretty good.
-In the VOY ep Resistance, where Tuvok and B'Elanna are captured and with Joel Grey as a guest star, the guards, while we don't see it, beat the crap out of Tuvok pretty badly, judging from the aftermath.
So ST isn't exactly Oz, but there have been some pretty violent scenes in all of the series.
Red Ranger
Some others:
-Although comical, Kirk certainly beat Finnegan to a pulp in Shore Leave.
-The children in Miri certainly pound on Kirk pretty good with their bats and other objects, so that he's bleeding from several places.
-When the big thrall in Gamesters of Triskelion whips the hell out of Kirk.
-In Patterns of Force, the "Nazis" whip the hell out of Kirk and Spock.
-In TNG ep Descent, Pt. 1, it's quite disturbing to see Data kill one of the Borg in a homicidal rage.
-When Worf has to fight all those Jem'Hadar in DSN ep By Inferno's Light and finally has to face the toughest one, he got his ass handed to him pretty good.
-In the VOY ep Resistance, where Tuvok and B'Elanna are captured and with Joel Grey as a guest star, the guards, while we don't see it, beat the crap out of Tuvok pretty badly, judging from the aftermath.
So ST isn't exactly Oz, but there have been some pretty violent scenes in all of the series.
Red Ranger
Kira beating up Damar. Totally ridiculous. We're supposed to believe that Damar can't defend himself against a woman, no matter how well trained, half his size ?
Actually, it may be one of the few Kira combats that wasn't "totally ridiculous." You're supposed to assume, I think, that Damar had been drinking for much of the day before their encounter—a customary occurrence—and was by no means at his fighting peak. In addition, his intense dislike for Kira and all Bajorans caused him to give her absolutely no repect as a combatant once their very brief exchange began: He flailed at her, employing easily blocked roundhouse swings, while she very precisely and ruthlessly hit him again and again, as hard and as often as she could, until he went down—which is precisely what one must do when fighting a larger, stronger opponent.
I have little doubt the Cardassians never bothered to learn where Bajorans are particularly vulnerable, in a structural sense: They were the conquerers, and far more physically impressive, so it was hardly necessary to receive specialized training. Simply overpowering them usually served quite well. On the other hand, I'm sure Bajoran freedom fighters/terrorists learned every freakin' dirty trick in the book, and studied Cardassian anatomy with an eye towards gaining the advantage in close quarters. Think about Kira's encounter with Damar's buddy in the Cardassian Liberation Front: After she pulls a move on him and he comments about having struck a nerve, she does so literally and intentionally. You can't do that to another species unless you're quite familiar with their weaknesses.
I have more of a problem with her dropping armed Klingon shock troops who attack her with both intent to kill and sobriety intact. Now that's absurd.
As to the double-fisted chop, well ... that's simply a time-honored Trek convention.
I've always assumed that a Damar who'd not been swilling kanar and afforded Kira even half the respect she deserved in a fight would drop her like a bad habit. Frankly, I think she was quite close to death directly after making the comment about the kinds of people that give such orders in the wake of his family's execution.
When did we see this? I'd bet the first-wave troops in "Way of the Warrior" were even higher on warnog and bloodwine than Grilka's hubby!
No, seriously. I'd think Gowron's first order of business after climbing to the throne of an imperial conquest leader would be to send all the incompetents and naysayers on a joint suicide sortie, swords in hand, insincere wishes of honorable conduct to see them off. The more the Feds and their Cardie lackeys killed, the better - DS9 defenses would also be weakened, and the next sortie, by troops loyal to Gowron, would have good odds of success. The fake Martok would have supported this strategy wholeheartedly, although with the minor modifications of further decreasing the military value of the forlorn hopes, and assigning some good solid loyalists and valuable warriors into the sacrificial units, too...
What I have the biggest problem with is that both Klingons and Cardassians seem to wear body armor at all times, yet hits making contact with their chests or stomachs are usually the ones that allow Kira and the other heroes to win.
Timo Saloniemi
I'd say you could be right except for one thing: interrogators. I would figure that in Central Command OR Obsidian Order interrogations, they would learn that stuff to know how best to torture people.
I figured that. I had an idea for a scene in one of my fanfics (unwritten so far) where a Cardassian is brought into sickbay in pretty ragged shape, and the Bajoran doctor on staff is going to show serious knowledge of his anatomy--basically only using sensors as a backup to her own assessments. This would be knowledge gained in the Resistance.
Probably--then again, I suspect the fact that Damar didn't lash out at that point is intended to show just how different the guy is sober. That's a lot of self-restraint.
Maybe "stun" doesn't work, necessitating the use of "lethal" settings automatically, against such opponents. Or maybe the armor (as I have supposed in my own writing) is mainly effective against glancing shots and shrapnel, not as much against a full-on phaser blast.
Yeah, a bit silly, all those blows to a foe's armored body parts. Wouldn't Kira, and as I recall, Riker, have broken their knuckles on their respective foe's armor, her Damar's armor, and him Lt. Klag's in A Matter of Honor? -- RR
Oh, I'm still right.
Just because interrogators had and no doubt employed specialized knowledge in such situations doesn't mean they bothered disseminating it to the hoi polloi. It simply wasn't important when the average Cardassian could break your run-of-the-mill Bajoran in half with relative ease.
We have no evidence of any refinement in torture methods from the Cardassian military, in addition. [Consider Dukat's contempt for such methods as expressed to Garak in "The Way of the Warrior."] And remember, unless necessary, the Obsidian Order shared but one thing with Central Command: Mutual disdain.
Intriguing thought, and almost certainly a standard Klingon method for solidifying one's position.
Would those troops not have been winnowed out during the various ground actions we may reasonably assume had already been fought in Cardassian space?
I'm sure the Bajorans didn't wait to have a militia for that.Cardassian training is greatly overratedKira beating up Damar. Totally ridiculous. We're supposed to believe that Damar can't defend himself against a woman, no matter how well trained, half his size ?
That or the Bajoran militia training has a whole semester dedicated to "How to Hit a Cardassian Where It REALLY Hurts."
