Remastered Shots vs. Original Shots
- Thread starter FalTorPan
- Start date
Nah. I'll just watch the real ones on TV Land.
Quod erat demonstrandum.
ST-One
Vice Admiral
And is used at the end of a mathematical proof to say the point is proven.
I was trying to be subtle here, trevanian, backing off my criticism rather than taking it another round. I was going to allow the intelligence of my fellow posters to see that my point was proven by your response rather than ratcheting it up with a further reply. I still think that is the best course.
Let me try again, putting it this way. Rather than criticize you, let me criticize myself. I like the original versions of the first (produced) Star Wars movies rather than Lucas' remasters. Those were the ones I learned. But I also thoroughly enjoy his re-done efforts. I hate colorized movies, especially the early attempts. Still, I'll watch the colorized version of Miracle on 34th Street at Christmastime just because I love the movie so much. Maybe I'm strange. Maybe I'm mis-wired. But just because Tiger Woods, who is by far my favorite golfer, is out for the season doesn't mean I didn't completely enjoy this years British Open and am looking forward to the PGA Championship next week. I have the ability to separate my preconceived biases about something from my enjoyment of it at the time. I can completely enjoy something even though intellectually I don't like it. And as much as I am enthralled with the remastering of The Corbomite Maneuver, I think they did a terrible job on The Doomsday Machine. They got the planet killer all wrong. It looks bad. And the Enterprise is swooping over it like a WWII airplane on a strafing run. It's ridiculous. But will I buy Season 2 in hi-def when it comes out? You betcha. I thought, even with all its errors, the remastered Doomsday Machine was a lot of fun. I'm into fun. Hence my "entertained by your entertainment" crack.
I take it back. I don't think I'm mis-wired. I think I've got this one exactly right, with being in the moment and all that jazz.
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trevanian
Rear Admiral
And is used at the end of a mathematical proof to say the point is proven.
I was trying to be subtle here, trevanian, backing off my criticism rather than taking it another round. I was going to allow the intelligence of my fellow posters to see that my point was proven by your response rather than ratcheting it up with a further reply. I still think that is the best course.
Let me try again, putting it this way. Rather than criticize you, let me criticize myself. I like the original versions of the first (produced) Star Wars movies rather than Lucas' remasters. Those were the ones I learned. But I also thoroughly enjoy his re-done efforts. I hate colorized movies, especially the early attempts. Still, I'll watch the colorized version of Miracle on 34th Street at Christmastime just because I love the movie so much. Maybe I'm strange. Maybe I'm mis-wired. But just because Tiger Woods, who is by far my favorite golfer, is out for the season doesn't mean I didn't completely enjoy this years British Open and am looking forward to the PGA Championship next week. I have the ability to separate my preconceived biases about something from my enjoyment of it at the time. I can completely enjoy something even though intellectually I don't like it. And as much as I am enthralled with the remastering of The Corbomite Maneuver, I think they did a terrible job on The Doomsday Machine. They got the planet killer all wrong. It looks bad. And the Enterprise is swooping over it like a WWII airplane on a strafing run. It's ridiculous. But will I buy Season 2 in hi-def when it comes out? You betcha. I thought, even with all its errors, the remastered Doomsday Machine was a lot of fun. I'm into fun. Hence my "entertained by your entertainment" crack.
I take it back. I don't think I'm mis-wired. I think I've got this one exactly right, with being in the moment and all that jazz.
I enjoy some moron space stuff myself, like LAST STARFIGHTER and SPACE RANGERS and the Vince Edwards Roger Corman post-BATTLE BEYOND THE STARS pic I forget the title of ... I just prefer to keep it apart from Trek. The criteria when I watch ACTION JACKSON is not the criteria I apply when watching a 'serious' action or drama.
I'm not putting Trek on a pedestal with Se7en or Kubrick, but I'm not putting it under THE PRISONER's heel either. And so I am selective about suspending critical faculties, for storytelling or for other aspects of filmmaking, so dumbing it down with cuts or poor excuses for new visuals doesn't cut any slack with me, especially since it seems clear that the motivation was financial and new audience related, not aesthetic (at least on Paramount's end; I wouldn't dare speak for the artists' intent, having seen little and liked less.)
In one of the docus in the Season 1 HD-DVD set, they said they boosted the colors and increased the black level. They didn't say if they intended it to bring the appearance back to how the film might have looked 40 years ago before any degradation, or if they did it to appeal to the young gamer crowd. I tend to think it's the latter.
Doug
trevanian
Rear Admiral
Does it mention if cinematographer Jerry Finnerman was consulted? I'd figure that would be an obvious courtesy, given that he is responsible for a lot of the daring choices early on. In BALANCE OF TERROR when the nuke goes off outside, he lets ALL the lighting go off, so only the helm and back wall alert blinkers are on, and I don't think I can recall any similar extreme dark moment (outside of night scenes) on an old tv series.
No; they don't mention him at all. In fact, the whole segment about restoring and digitizing the film is very brief and lacking a lot of details I'd be interested in hearing and seeing.
Doug
trevanian
Rear Admiral
I haven't looked at the MOONLIGHTING dvds yet, but I'd bet good money they had Finnerman check those out. If you saw how terrible and different that show looked in reruns on LIFETIME (like vhs double dupes), I would think they'd take measures to deliver the best possible dvd.
Then again, we're talking TREK here, and that probably means they'll only bring Finnerman or his heirs in when the re-re-re-remastered virtual-reality/insertyourselfintheshow version comes out of TOS in another decade or so.
I really admired the EASY RIDER cameraman for his participating in that film's dvd transfer. The colorist told him that it would be easy to lighten up the shadow areas so more detail could be seen, and he said hell no, that shadow is black because I wanted it black. Of course, once you get away from the original participants, the field will be wide open for making your own spins on the originals (which I guess is what tos-r really is.)
There always seems to be a heavy control element on Paramount BTS stuff ... on the TMPDE, the access for interviews about how they were doing it seemed limited to trek friendly publications (I got a resounding snub myself when inquiring about covering the Foundation Imaging/SharpLine work for CINEFEX, a mag one of those SharpLine guys used to write for.)
Then again, we're talking TREK here, and that probably means they'll only bring Finnerman or his heirs in when the re-re-re-remastered virtual-reality/insertyourselfintheshow version comes out of TOS in another decade or so.
I really admired the EASY RIDER cameraman for his participating in that film's dvd transfer. The colorist told him that it would be easy to lighten up the shadow areas so more detail could be seen, and he said hell no, that shadow is black because I wanted it black. Of course, once you get away from the original participants, the field will be wide open for making your own spins on the originals (which I guess is what tos-r really is.)
There always seems to be a heavy control element on Paramount BTS stuff ... on the TMPDE, the access for interviews about how they were doing it seemed limited to trek friendly publications (I got a resounding snub myself when inquiring about covering the Foundation Imaging/SharpLine work for CINEFEX, a mag one of those SharpLine guys used to write for.)
Marketing surveys would have helped them crunch the numbers. People already owned TOS in uncut DVD form. So they were now being offered enhanced SPFX versions, in both HD and regular DVD.
3D Master
Rear Admiral
Which of course, has nothing to do with whether or not unaltered versions should or shouldn't be on the (HD) DVDs as well.
Especially considering you don't actually need to put the entire unaltered episodes on there; you don't need to doubly place the stuff both versions have on the DVDs.
Especially considering you don't actually need to put the entire unaltered episodes on there; you don't need to doubly place the stuff both versions have on the DVDs.
Let's see...Paramount leaving another chance in the bag to re-sell us Star Trek one more time. Nope, that's a crazy idea. They'd never do that. 
Says the guy who has bought the episodes on VHS, regular DVD and HD DVD. I'm just glad I skipped the LaserDisc versions, although I did buy the movies on LaserDisc. Yup, I'm pretty stupid and gulible. Isn't that somewhere in the standard definition of a Trekkie?
Says the guy who has bought the episodes on VHS, regular DVD and HD DVD. I'm just glad I skipped the LaserDisc versions, although I did buy the movies on LaserDisc. Yup, I'm pretty stupid and gulible. Isn't that somewhere in the standard definition of a Trekkie?
The theatrical version of TMP used to be available on ITunes. I'm not sure if it is anymore. I downloaded and burned it. It's become my preferred version to watch.
3D Master
Rear Admiral
What has Wise got to do, with whether or not the theatrical edition gets released, and did not get released as part of the DE package?
They redid the SFX for the entire original series for the HD release, when they didn't even have to. You actually think they're not going to redo the effects again? Especially if they may still hold Foundation's files, so they may just have to put through a higher resolution render?
I just think it more likely they'll put out the theatrical version, which would cost less than upgrading the DE version, and advertise it as "never before on home video" and "never before on DVD" in order to sell a bunch, then come out with a super-duper DE version later on, so that they can re-sell TMP one more time.
See, I'm not as conspiratorial as you, 3D Master, but just as cynical.
See, I'm not as conspiratorial as you, 3D Master, but just as cynical.
ST-One
Vice Admiral
Are you people done?
The TOS-VFX need to be redone; the composits would look horrible in HD (as the images posted in this very thread prove). (Personally I would want a release of the unaltered TOS episodes too, if just for sentimental reasons.)
The TMP-DE is a vast improvement over the original theatrical version; slightly better pacing, better sound (there now actually is sound), and the added new VFX are subtle and in line with the original style.
The TOS-VFX need to be redone; the composits would look horrible in HD (as the images posted in this very thread prove). (Personally I would want a release of the unaltered TOS episodes too, if just for sentimental reasons.)
The TMP-DE is a vast improvement over the original theatrical version; slightly better pacing, better sound (there now actually is sound), and the added new VFX are subtle and in line with the original style.
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