Poll: Runabout vs. NX

[Gary Mitchell]

I'm going to go for the NX.

For one thing a runabout has to be specifically equipeed to have torpedoes (the rollbar thingy).

Wasn't the "rollbar thingy" an extra sensor package? In "The Jem Hadar" the captain of the Odyssey wanted O'Brien to add extra banks of photon torpedoes to the runabouts. When they showed all 3 runabouts in the Gamma Quadrant, only 1 had the rollbar.

 

[shatastrophic]

24th century phasers against the NX's polarized hull. I think the Runabout would win.

 

[Squiggy]

And for the record... size DOES matter in Trek... a lot. Bigger ship = bigger warp core = more power = heavier weapons arrays and stronger shield generators.

Ok, you've formed a hypothesis...

For those of you still using the Defiant as an example of size doesn't matter... A Defiant still will get roasted by a Galaxy, Sovereign, Prometheus, Nebula, or Akira class battleship.

And you totally ignore the evidence that counters your hypothesis. Nice.

The Defiant schooled an Excelsior class and many foreign ships of larger size.

 

[Delta1]

You are forgetting that size doesn't matter too much in Trek.
They are able to pack large amounts of energy discharges in small sized objects.

Given similar types of technology, size is the most obvious criteria by which they may be compared. Both the NX and the Danube generate power by the annihilation of matter and anti-matter. The Danube's reactor, as illustrated in the DS9TM--and we may assume this is roughly correct--is orders of magnitude smaller than that of the NX. That means less redundancy, less fuel, and--perhaps most importantly for this scenario--a smaller volume in which the M/AM reaction may take place.

Assuming for the sake of discussion that the DS9TM is also correct about the scale of microtorpedoes that are standard aboard the Danube, again, both ships' torpedoes work by M/AM annihilation and their size limits their efficacy. The power level of the standard photorp is given as ~65 MT in the TNGTM, and fluctuates wildly in the show. Let's be generous give a standard photorp 650 MT. Photonic torpedoes are about the same size, A photorp shell is very approximately 1 cubic meter. I don't have my DS9TM, but ISTR the microtorpedo being about 15x5x5=375 cubic centimeters, or about 1/2667 the volume of a photorp. Assuming a utorp holds the same "stuff" as a photorp, we can (generously) assign it a yield of 0.25 MT. Unless my math is way off (probably is). Either way, there's only so much stuff you can fit into a given space, and that difference eventually becomes meaningful.

The shields of USS Defiant from Kirk's era was able to withstand weapons from multiple enemy targets without problems.
Granted, that was a Constitution class vessel.
Shields from a century later though would be able to do such a thing even better.

Shields from a century later can be more efficient, but that increase in efficiency can be canceled out by a decrease in raw power.

The Danube has the advantage of automation and self-repair.

Did they subcontract their runabout construction out to the Borg?

To address the Excelsior-Defiant match mentioned elsewhere, this is just more evidence that reactor size can help determine the outcome of a fight. The Defiant's MARC is about the size of that of a GCS, maybe bigger IIRC. The little ship was explicitly overpowered. This overpowering is what lets Defiants take on Excelsiors and Negh'vars and survive. Not the fact that it simply has better tech. Apply the same lesson to the Danube: It may have better tech, but it follows the rules that the Defiant broke--it has a much smaller powerplant, ultimately limiting the amount of combat power it can apply and withstand.

 

[Delta1]

You are forgetting that size doesn't matter too much in Trek.
They are able to pack large amounts of energy discharges in small sized objects.

Given similar types of technology, size is the most obvious criteria by which they may be compared. Both the NX and the Danube generate power by the annihilation of matter and anti-matter. The Danube's reactor, as illustrated in the DS9TM--and we may assume this is roughly correct--is orders of magnitude smaller than that of the NX. That means less redundancy, less fuel, and--perhaps most importantly for this scenario--a smaller volume in which the M/AM reaction may take place. Less reaction space limits all kinds of tactically relevant systems on the Danube: energy weapons, shields, inertial dampening, structural integrity, and the console explody devices.

Assuming for the sake of discussion that the DS9TM is also correct about the scale of microtorpedoes that are standard aboard the Danube, again, both ships' torpedoes work by M/AM annihilation and their size limits their efficacy. The power level of the standard photorp is given as ~65 MT in the TNGTM, and fluctuates wildly in the show. Let's be generous give a standard photorp 650 MT. Photonic torpedoes are about the same size, but probably less efficient due to A photorp shell is very approximately 1 cubic meter. I don't have my DS9TM, but ISTR the microtorpedo being about 15x5x5=375 cubic centimeters, or about 1/2667 the volume of a photorp. Assuming a utorp holds the same "stuff" as a photorp, we can (generously) assign it a yield of 0.25 MT. Unless my math is way off (probably is). Either way, there's only so much stuff you can fit into a given space, and that difference eventually becomes meaningful.

The shields of USS Defiant from Kirk's era was able to withstand weapons from multiple enemy targets without problems.
Granted, that was a Constitution class vessel.
Shields from a century later though would be able to do such a thing even better.

Shields from a century later may be more efficient, but that increase in efficiency may be canceled out by a decrease in raw power.

The Danube has the advantage of automation and self-repair.

Did they subcontract their runabout construction out to the Borg?

To address the Excelsior-Defiant match mentioned elsewhere, this is just more evidence that reactor size can help determine the outcome of a fight. The Defiant's MARC is about the size of that of a GCS, maybe bigger IIRC. The little ship was explicitly overpowered. This overpowering is what lets Defiants take on Excelsiors and Negh'vars and survive. Not the fact that it simply has better tech. Apply the same lesson to the Danube: It may have better tech, but it follows the rules that the Defiant broke--it has a much smaller powerplant, ultimately limiting the amount of combat power it can apply and withstand.

 

[Nedersong]

I'm going to go for the NX.

For one thing a runabout has to be specifically equipeed to have torpedoes (the rollbar thingy).

Wasn't the "rollbar thingy" an extra sensor package? In "The Jem Hadar" the captain of the Odyssey wanted O'Brien to add extra banks of photon torpedoes to the runabouts. When they showed all 3 runabouts in the Gamma Quadrant, only 1 had the rollbar.

I believe it can be equipped with either. But to me it looks like a rehash of the Reliant's torpedo launcher.

 

[Cyke101]

And for the record... size DOES matter in Trek... a lot. Bigger ship = bigger warp core = more power = heavier weapons arrays and stronger shield generators.

Ok, you've formed a hypothesis...

For those of you still using the Defiant as an example of size doesn't matter... A Defiant still will get roasted by a Galaxy, Sovereign, Prometheus, Nebula, or Akira class battleship.

And you totally ignore the evidence that counters your hypothesis. Nice.

The Defiant schooled an Excelsior class and many foreign ships of larger size.

I wouldn't say schooled, per se, but it did take a whole weapons upgrade to make the Lakota a match for the Defiant.

Still, Runabout > NX, no doubt in my mind. Not only will the Runabout fly circles around her, not only does the Runabout out-gun her, but the Runabout probably has a heck of a lot more technology needed to simply disable the NX in any number of non-violent ways.

Heck, a few pinpoint phaser blasts, and the Runabout can reduce the NX's phase cannons to molten steel and melt its impulse engines.

 

[Vonstadt]

No question the Danube class runabout.

We are talking about two centuries difference in tech.

for example 2008 tech vs. 1808 tech.

I doubt the NX's weapons could penetrate the Runabouts shields much less target her.

 

[Meredith]

It's like a Millitary Humvee with 5 people from today Vs. the Confederates at the Battle of Gettysburg.

Though the Humvee would be able to inflict massive casualties, they would run out of bullets and the confederates may get a lucky shot in during the mean time.

 

[Cyke101]

It's like a Millitary Humvee with 5 people from today Vs. the Confederates at the Battle of Gettysburg.

Though the Humvee would be able to inflict massive casualties, they would run out of bullets and the confederates may get a lucky shot in during the mean time.

I think your analogy is off. A humvee vs. an entire army? That's like saying a Runabout Vs. all of 22nd Century Starfleet during the Romulan War.

A closer analogy would be a Military Humvee Vs. a wooden ship from the War of 1812. One bazooka missile and that ship will sink, despite the ship having more troops, more mass, and >arguably< more firepower.

 

[JM1776]

Considering that her weapons greatly outrange those of an NX-class, a runabout might well be able to remain outside her foe's reach for the battle's entire duration, peppering her with micro-torpedoes and never receiving a blow in kind.

 

[Amaris]

The hull of the NX-01 is duranium. The hull of a runabout is a tritanium-duranium alloy, which is far stronger. The NX-01 has phase cannons and low yield spatial torpedoes, a Danube class runabout has phasers and photon torpedoes. The NX-01 has polarized hull plating, while the Danube class has 24th century shield technology. The Danube class runabout also has a tractor beam which could be used as a weapon, since it is powerful enough to tow larger vessels than itself.

My verdict?
The Danube class runabout.

J.

 

[drasche]

The hull of the NX-01 is duranium. The hull of a runabout is a tritanium-duranium alloy, which is far stronger. The NX-01 has phase cannons and low yield spatial torpedoes, a Danube class runabout has phasers and photon torpedoes. The NX-01 has polarized hull plating, while the Danube class has 24th century shield technology. The Danube class runabout also has a tractor beam which could be used as a weapon, since it is powerful enough to tow larger vessels than itself.

My verdict?
The Danube class runabout.

J.

I'm afraid you forgot the photonic torpedioes upgrade in the beginning of Enterprise's third season

 

[Amaris]

The hull of the NX-01 is duranium. The hull of a runabout is a tritanium-duranium alloy, which is far stronger. The NX-01 has phase cannons and low yield spatial torpedoes, a Danube class runabout has phasers and photon torpedoes. The NX-01 has polarized hull plating, while the Danube class has 24th century shield technology. The Danube class runabout also has a tractor beam which could be used as a weapon, since it is powerful enough to tow larger vessels than itself.

My verdict?
The Danube class runabout.

J.

I'm afraid you forgot the photonic torpedioes upgrade in the beginning of Enterprise's third season

Oh, yes, that's true. I missed part of the third season because I skipped 90% of the first two. However, I doubt the "photonic" torpedoes would be a match for 24th century photon torpedoes.

J.

 

[BigFoot]

My money is on the runabout... the NX wouldn't stand a chance.