Are Critics going to "kill" Star Trek XI, regardless?

[VOODOOXI]

I've had this unfortunate feeling that regardless of the quality of script/acting/effects, critics and angry trek fans are going to kill this movie before it even has a chance.

If this movie flops, does that mean the end of the Star Trek dynasty for good?

"The Star Trek dynasty" ended many years ago. This film can doing nothing but breath some life back into this once proud franchise.

Why would critics attack this film? I've always thought that most major critics (see Roger Ebert's very balanced reviews of the series) have always been fair to Star Trek.

Why would Star Trek fans be angry about a new Star Trek film that brings back the series most popular characters as well as Leonard Nimoy?

I don't get this post.

 

[Biggshow]

Why would critics attack this film? I've always thought that most major critics (see Roger Ebert's very balanced reviews of the series) have always been fair to Star Trek.

Why would Star Trek fans be angry about a new Star Trek film that brings back the series most popular characters as well as Leonard Nimoy?

I don't get this post.

VOODOOXI, it's possible that you haven't been here long enough to see many of the ridiculous (IMHO) rants and frothings at the mouth about this movie yet. From all reports it is fair to say that this will be some kind of reboot film (maybe not a lot but there is much teeth gnashing over Abrams comments about the communicator, for example ). Many old school fans absolutley hate that idea regardless of whatever artistic merits the movie may have as a stand-alone adventure. That's the negative fan buzz the OP is talking about. I think you don't get the post because you don't see why anyone would object to a movie that breathes new life into a fictional universe. That makes you a rational person.

 

[GothTrek]

Star Trek is like porn. Most everyone enjoys watching it, but most everyone will never admit it.

 

[Plain Simple]

Isn't it a bit odd to already start worrying about what critics might or might not do nine months from now? And if this is a reboot related fear, then I think critics couldn't care less. And the small minority of hardcore Trek fans who might 'loudly' protest against a reboot will not have much influence on anything, judging by the last couple of years.

To me, there is a lot going for this movie and the hype is building.

Is it? I don't know about your neck of the woods, but over here there's not much of a hype. I don't think I've seen the movie mentioned anywhere else than on the internet on sf sites or in sf magazines. Sure, it's still early, but I don't see any signs of a hype building.

 

[Admiral Buzzkill]

^^^

Even if they hate the film, it will be better than them just phoning it in, like Ebert did with Nemesis.

His review of "Nemesis" was excellent and right on target regarding most of the things wrong with "Star Trek" at that point.

Excerpts:

...I'm smiling like a good sport and trying to get with the dialogue about the isotronic Ruritronic signature from planet Kolarus III, or whatever the hell they were saying, maybe it was "positronic," and gradually it occurs to me that "Star Trek" is over for me. I've been looking at these stories for half a lifetime, and, let's face it, they're out of gas.

There might have been a time when the command deck of Starship Enterprise looked exciting and futuristic, but these days it looks like a communications center for security guards. Starships rocket at light speeds halfway across the universe, but when they get into battles the effect is roughly the same as on board a World War II bomber. Fearsome death rays strike the Enterprise, and what happens? Sparks fly out from the ceiling and the crew gets bounced around in their seats like passengers on the No. 36 bus...
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I've also had it with the force shield that protects the Enterprise. The power on this thing is always going down. In movie after movie after movie I have to sit through sequences during which the captain is tersely informed that the front shield is down to 60 percent, or the back shield is down to 10 percent, or the side shield is leaking energy, and the captain tersely orders that power be shifted from the back to the sides or all put in the front, or whatever, and I'm thinking, life is too short to sit through 10 movies in which the power is shifted around on these shields...
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...Patrick Stewart, as Capt. Picard, is a wonderful actor. I know because I have seen him elsewhere. It is always said of Stewart that his strength as an actor is his ability to deliver bad dialogue with utter conviction. I say it is time to stop encouraging him. Here's an idea: Instead of giving him bad dialogue, why not give him good dialogue, and see what he can do with that...
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There is a scene in the movie in which one starship rams another one. You would think this would destroy them both, and there are a lot of sparks and everybody has to hold onto their seats, but the "Star Trek" world involves physical laws which reflect only the needs of the plot...
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Star Trek was kind of terrific once, but now it is a copy of a copy of a copy.

The entire review is here, and it's pretty terrific itself.

 

[RobertScorpio]

I've had this unfortunate feeling that regardless of the quality of script/acting/effects, critics and angry trek fans are going to kill this movie before it even has a chance.

If this movie flops, does that mean the end of the Star Trek dynasty for good?

Yep..you can see that coming from miles away..its like an iceberg an ocean away and a small row boat setting off to sea...you just know the two will meet..

Rob
scorpio

 

[Therin of Andor]

This is about where I'm at with this. Trek fans themselves will complain the loudest...but will still turn out.

Which is precisely what happened with ST:TMP and ST IV. While both films made huge amounts of money, both films angered some fans. A lot. The character interrelationships were supposedly "missing" from TMP and many complained that ST IV's comedy and science had been "dumbed down" for the masses.

Both films received sufficient buzz to draw in the curious general public.

Ditto "First Contact", which polarized fans (action Picard, supposed mis-porttayal of Cochrane, too scary for kids) but was still a critical and box office success.

I do worry about the mainstream movie-going public though. Trek is still considered to be a nerd thing...and I don't know if JJ and the new cast are enough to break the association (in the public's mind) that Trek is for basement-dwelling dweebs with no social skills.

It didn't stop the general public associating with nerds to see TMP, ST IV or "First Contact".

You know, in my life, none of my non-ST friends, neighbours, work colleagues, kids I teach, or blog readers, think that I'm a basement-dwelling deeb. If they do, it must be behind my back, and done so well that I never catch them insulting me. I never hide that I'm a ST fan, and I've fielded many curious questions as people have started hearing that there's "a new movie" on its way. Maybe jocks think I'm a dweeb, but I can't say that I choose to hang around too many jocks. So we don't really know each other.

That the general public hate nerds but love and respect jocks is a crock. I would think that most cinema-goers would prefer to associate with polite nerds ( when sitting in the darkened cinema with a group of strangers) than with those who'd rather be off being... active. (Mind you, whoever said that jocks have to hate Star Trek?)

 

[Therin of Andor]

Sure, it's still early, but I don't see any signs of a hype building.

Here Down Under, we've recently had a rush of William Shatner print media interviews. I originally thought it was just Sydney, but my mother sent me several clippings from Perth newspapers and magazines, all covering the same information. Almost every newspaper, in several states, have carried a variation of his press release about his new autobiography - and every local journalist covering the story for their paper has added mention of the new JJ Abrams "Star Trek" movie, and how Shatner had been a little disgruntled that Nimoy would be reprising Elder Spock alongside a new cast, but at least Shatner was doing well with his TV career, writing career, and his online selling. None of the articles I read were anti-ST.

Paramount can't buy this kind of publicity. It percolates along - and they haven't even started their own campaign yet.

 

[Augustus]

I agree and think Ebert's review of Nemesis is spot on. Trek battles are a race to end things before the shields fail... which along with a dozen other things has been done a hundred times. Trek needs a paradigm shift...

Let's pray Abrams gets it right..

 

[M'rk son of Mogh]

This is about where I'm at with this. Trek fans themselves will complain the loudest...but will still turn out.

Which is precisely what happened with ST:TMP and ST IV. While both films made huge amounts of money, both films angered some fans. A lot.

And the thread starter is supported by Nemesis. Where minds were already made up before opening weekend, sight unseen, not to see the movie. The fans complained, and they stayed home. And the general public saw "Maid in Manhattan" instead.

What's the counter-programmed movie being released the day of Trek XI?

Be careful, it now has a precedent.

 

[Therin of Andor]

And the thread starter is supported by Nemesis. Where minds were already made up before opening weekend, sight unseen, not to see the movie. The fans complained, and they stayed home. And the general public saw "Maid in Manhattan" instead.

But... The online complaints about "Nemesis" were along the lines of "I've read the whole script, it sounds dumb, the producers are saying it's nothing like the leaked script, but the trailers indicate it is". Also, that they were bored by "Insurrection" as an overblown episode on screen so why should they pay to see ST just like they can see for free on TV.

ST XI is not carrying any of that dead weight. And neither did TMP, ST IV or "First Contact".

 

[TheMasterOfOrion]

The Trek franchise is being pushed in a new direction and critics enjoy people like J.J. Abrams, Ben Rosenblatt. So I doubt these guys will be roasted by critics even if the movie itself is very mediocre

 

[mswood]

The thing is with this film is there are several pluses and one huge minus.

The plus is that this is the first time since Voyage Home that Trek will not be in direct competition with free Trek on TV. ANd less face it no Trek film is equal to the best of the TV series (besides in production value).

This will be the first Trek film since the Motion Picture to have a real competitive budget. Though it will still be smaller then most large blockbusters.

It the 2nd longest period in Trek's history without new Trek. SOmething to let people get excited about.

All of these things should absolutely help this film.

Now the one huge minus.

Its budget. Pure and simply even adjusted this is the largest budget for any Trek film. That means it must get more people in the seats then any other Trek film.

Ticket sales Motionless Picture then Voyage Home had the largest audience in the US. Adjusted to ticket prices today Motion Picture is about 230 million and Voyage Home is about 205 million in ticket sales. Overseas its best adjusted in todays ticket prices is roughly 90 million. That means in todays dollars Trek at its best managed a WW gross of 320 million dollars. And that is at its very best. When it managed to get more butts in the seats then any other time.

THe new film will have to match that to just break even (thats with a low figure for marketing and print costs with its lowest published budget).

This film to be profitable in WW gross will have to do better then any Trek film, ever. ANd that and not critics is the biggest worry for the future of this project.

Oh one other plus. THis is the first time Trek will get a fairly equal WW opening. That should help push its overseas numbers up quite a bit.

 

[section9]

The Trek franchise is being pushed in a new direction and critics enjoy people like J.J. Abrams, Ben Rosenblatt. So I doubt these guys will be roasted by critics even if the movie itself is very mediocre

One of the reasons Abrams is being so closedmouthed is the very problem of advance-opening criticism. Having a bootleg come out and be panned or praised, then deconstructed on AICN, would absolutely kill the film.

OTOH, viral marketing, a la Cloverfield, would have a quite opposite effect, at least as the film opened. Whether the film would get repeat business would depend on how good it was.

 

[M'rk son of Mogh]

ST XI is not carrying any of that dead weight. And neither did TMP, ST IV or "First Contact".

TMP, for sure, I agree had no dead weight at all attached.

But First Contact was competing with Trek still on the air (and the ratings of the Treks on TV at the time suggest that interest in the franchise was very much on the decline). And Generations isn't known as one of the better Trek films (especially among fans of the old series, having to see Kirk die the way that he did). Generally speaking, of course.

Nemesis, except for the early script readings, seems like it may have been in the same boat as First Contact. At least on the surface, I'm not sure. Maybe First Contact was still hitting the theatres while the iron hadn't cooled off too much and by the time of Nemesis, it was cold.

With nothing around competing, along with bringing in the old crew thus wiping away memories of Nemesis, Insurrection et al, this has more of a Motion Picture type shot in the theatre. Which is a definate positive.

Just thinking "out loud" here more than anything.

Carry on.

 

[T'Cal]

I'm not worried. I think that JJA and his pals are on the right track and that we will see a quality product that the critics and public will both enjoy. If I'm worried about anything it's that Paramount has never done a satisfactory job of marketing Trek films to the general audience. The last movie from any company to produce the kind of buzz that has come from The Dark Knight was 1989's Batman. Midnight shows, long lines, sold out shows, product tie ins, heavy play of trailers and commercials. I'm afraid that Paramount doesn't know how to that for Trek.

 

[Warp Coil]

Honestly, I think the reaction to this film will be more positive than the last couple of films. This new movie is quite possibly the best thing to happen to the Trek franchise in a really long time. We have a new producer/director (J.J. Abrams) who is popular and well-liked in Hollywood right now because of his involvement with things like "Lost" and "Cloverfield." We have a new creative direction for the franchise - J.J. has a vision and knows what he wants to do. We're also seeing a return to the TOS days with new incarnations of Kirk and Spock. Despite Trek's questionable popularity with the average joe, everyone knows who Kirk and Spock are. Having recognizable characters might make the audience more receptive than using the TNG characters again, or do a mixed cast film, or to introduce completely new characters that not even the fans know about.

It sounds like J.J. wants to make an epic film - a first for Trek. And he had the budget to make it happen. He's also injecting more new blood by hiring people who have never worked in Trek before. We're getting new production designers, costume designers, a marvelous composer who's never done Trek before. There will be a lot of new energy in this film. And I think that's going to make it more apealling somehow. It isn't going to look the way the previous Treks have looked.

Whether the film is a huge success or a failure, I think one thing is for sure - it's going to be a lot different than what we're used to.

 

[Admiral Buzzkill]

Whether the film is a huge success or a failure, I think one thing is for sure - it's going to be a lot different than what we're used to.

Absolutely Right(TM). And thank gods.

 

[shatastrophic]

What has history shown us? That only fans care about Trek. There will be no main stream audience for this. With that said do the fans want a different spin on Trek? If we had a differnet spin on Trek when it started it wouldn't have made it. It is what it is.

 

[Therin of Andor]

What has history shown us? That only fans care about Trek. There will be no main stream audience for this.

History has shown us the ST:TMP, ST IV and "First Contact" made a lot of money!

When the finished product appeals to the general public, or at least piques their curiosity, they go to the movies to see Star Trek.