The Dark Knight - Grading & Discussion

[The Nth Doctor]

And, speaking of villains, not that this film needed more of them, but wasn't Harley Quinn supposed to be in The Dark Knight? Did her scenes get cut, or did I just miss her?

No, Harley wasn't suppose to be in The Dark Knight. Some fans (myself included, I admit) had hoped she would appear, but in a minor role. I don't mind she wasn't in it.

However, I did have one thought: Perhaps she can be a secondary character in the next film, taking up The Joker's position out of her crazy love for him.

The actors were all outstanding. Certainly Heath Ledger deserves all the praise that's been heaped upon him, but it's really a film about four characters: Batman, Joker, Gordon, and Dent, and it wouldn't have been nearly as good if Bale, Oldman, and Eckhart had been off their game even a smidge. I think they all deserve to be nominated for awards for their performances.

I'm glad to see another person agrees with me about the importance of Gordon's story. There hasn't been much talk about that so far in this thread.

 

[Othello]

Enjoyed everything about the movie except Maggie Gyllenhall. That woman is NOT very good looking at all and not all that as an actress. I would much preferred to see Katie Holmes back. Other than that an excellent movie.

 

[Lapis Exilis]

And, speaking of villains, not that this film needed more of them, but wasn't Harley Quinn supposed to be in The Dark Knight? Did her scenes get cut, or did I just miss her?

No, Harley wasn't suppose to be in The Dark Knight. Some fans (myself included, I admit) had hoped she would appear, but in a minor role. I don't mind she wasn't in it.

However, I did have one thought: Perhaps she can be a secondary character in the next film, taking up The Joker's position out of her crazy love for him.

The actors were all outstanding. Certainly Heath Ledger deserves all the praise that's been heaped upon him, but it's really a film about four characters: Batman, Joker, Gordon, and Dent, and it wouldn't have been nearly as good if Bale, Oldman, and Eckhart had been off their game even a smidge. I think they all deserve to be nominated for awards for their performances.

I'm glad to see another person agrees with me about the importance of Gordon's story. There hasn't been much talk about that so far in this thread.

No kidding - neither has Batman's story, and to me both were far more powerful than either of the villains tales, even if the performances were tighter and much more interior. Oldman was amazing in this role, rock solid, at last the Jim Gordon that's always been needed in the movies and never before seen. He so wonderfully embodies the quiet hero - I love his line to Dent early on about how he "Doesn't get political points for idealism. I have to do the best I can with what I've got." His scene with Berg in the car, with his family as they're threatened by Two-Face, his fierce protectiveness of Batman in the beginning and the way he challenges him at the end - he was masterful.

 

[sidious618]

I agree, I think Gary Oldman and Christian Bale gave the best performances in two very difficult roles. Ledger was great but I do feel that he is overshadowing the others a bit.

 

[DarthPipes]

Batman's story is compelling but I thought Dent's was more so. His character starts off as a flawed man but one determined to make a difference in Gotham. As he becomes bolder, he slowly begins to unravel until his disfigurement when he snaps completely. I was surprised with how the movie really focused on him throughout.

BTW, anyone waiting for Ledger to tell Maggie Gyellnhaal that she wasn't as hot as her brother?

 

[PsychoPere]

What I want to see in a reviewing are two things: 1.) what in the dialogue does Batman say in regards to which person he's going after. 2.) If he was going after Rachel, does Batman have any kind of surprised reaction when he arrives and sees Harvey instead?

For 1), when Gordon asks him which person he's going after, Batman responds "Rachel."

For 2), there was no hesitation on his part, but I'd say that's to be expected from the character. The person at that location may not have been who Batman was intending to save, but there's still the need to act nonetheless.

Oldman was amazing in this role, rock solid, at last the Jim Gordon that's always been needed in the movies and never before seen. He so wonderfully embodies the quiet hero - I love his line to Dent early on about how he "Doesn't get political points for idealism. I have to do the best I can with what I've got." His scene with Berg in the car, with his family as they're threatened by Two-Face, his fierce protectiveness of Batman in the beginning and the way he challenges him at the end - he was masterful.

Don't forget the way he appears torn inside as he yells that he has to save Harvey. Even before Dent takes his family and Gordon sees Harvey's psychosis, he knows he's failed Harvey and he can't take it. In a film with so many powerful performances, I think Oldman's was my personal favorite.

 

[steveman]

I think that was kind of expected. I think the biggest applause was when Joker gave his line to Bats that referenced an earlier role. That was awesome, Joker's "pencil trick" also got a big applause.

Oh, yeah. Definitely. I wasn't saying I was shocked by it or anything. Just an observation...

And people were definitely shocked when they saw the "pencil trick." Pretty much anything the Joker did that was played for comedy or shock value ellicited a strong response from the audience.

The "pencil kill" didn't get applause in my theater but it got response.
It was a few shrieks, verbal OMG, EEKS and I swear one guy behind me somewhere said SHIT! in a disturbed manner.

But not applause.

Didn't say that it got applause. Just said that people were shocked. I think I'd have been a little worried if people applauded that.

Anyway, after seeing the movie for a second time last night, I think the moment of the film that gets the most laughter is undoubtedly the scene where the Joker sits down in Dent/Two-Face's hospital room and just goes:

"Hiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiii"

The delivery alone was priceless.

 

[DarthPipes]

Was that line "You complete me!" That got a lot of laughs with the audience I said.

Probably the most interesting thing Ledger's Joker says to Batman is "me and you can do this forever." We know that won't be the case.

The part with Joker in the nurse's uniform had the audience rolling.

 

[The Nth Doctor]

Probably the most interesting thing Ledger's Joker says to Batman is "me and you can do this forever." We know that won't be the case.

True, but in the general Batman universe, that's very much the case. The line goes both ways.

 

[steveman]

I saw it but am unsure if Dent survived the fall in the film's final moments. Can someone help?

Saw it a second time last night and made it a point to focus in on Dent's body for any signs of life -- movement, breathing, etc.

And I didn't see a thing. I think he's really gone.

 

[Stone_Cold_Sisko]

Very nice way that the director tricks the audience into being convinced Batman was going to rescue Rachel and send Gordon to get Harvey. I like nice little changeups like that.

I was confused by this. I thought Batman told Gordon he was going to get Rachel while they get Dent. Did I hear him wrong? If I didn't then why did he get Dent instead of her?

Did the Joker simply lie about whom was at each location? That is what I assumed.

Yup, that's what it was. Remember earlier in interrogation, Joker was taunting Batman about how he cares for Rachel referring to when he went diving out the window to save her. So he told Batman it was rachel, he went there, and Rachel ended up getting killed in the other location.

 

[Johnny Rico]

All I wanna know from those who have seen it is, Does the Bat suit have nipples???

 

[Brolan]

All I wanna know from those who have seen it is, Does the Bat suit have nipples???

No.

 

[steveman]

Another thing I made a point to look for during my second viewing were subtle clues that might lead us to possible characters appearing in the next film.

Begins certainly gave us that, what with the Joker card at the end and Bruce's line about having "Two-faced friends."

What stuck out to me in this movie was Lucius' line about how the new Batsuit would stand up well against cats -- and, hell, maybe the conspicious use of the word "catastrophic" when the Batmobile blows up meant something, too.

(Hey, with these guys, you never know!) At any rate, Lucius' line was good...

Also, as other people have said, I was getting some Bane vibes from that prisoner on the ferry as well.

Anyway, I can certainly see Selina Kyle being in the next picture. After all, the picture needs a love interest. It's Hollywood. There's always a love interest.


(Edit: Just saw a quote by David Goyer (given prior to the release of TDK) on Wikipedia stating that TPTB would prefer to use antagonists from the comics who have not yet appeared on the big screen as villians for future movies. Supposedly, he ruled out using Catwoman and The Penguin.

Meh. Not so sure that will stand true. You have to think the film will have a love interest and Selina Kyle would be great...)

 

[TheBrew]

What I want to see in a reviewing are two things: 1.) what in the dialogue does Batman say in regards to which person he's going after. 2.) If he was going after Rachel, does Batman have any kind of surprised reaction when he arrives and sees Harvey instead?

For 1), when Gordon asks him which person he's going after, Batman responds "Rachel."

For 2), there was no hesitation on his part, but I'd say that's to be expected from the character. The person at that location may not have been who Batman was intending to save, but there's still the need to act nonetheless.

Oldman was amazing in this role, rock solid, at last the Jim Gordon that's always been needed in the movies and never before seen. He so wonderfully embodies the quiet hero - I love his line to Dent early on about how he "Doesn't get political points for idealism. I have to do the best I can with what I've got." His scene with Berg in the car, with his family as they're threatened by Two-Face, his fierce protectiveness of Batman in the beginning and the way he challenges him at the end - he was masterful.

Don't forget the way he appears torn inside as he yells that he has to save Harvey. Even before Dent takes his family and Gordon sees Harvey's psychosis, he knows he's failed Harvey and he can't take it. In a film with so many powerful performances, I think Oldman's was my personal favorite.

I recall that he said "Rachel" as well, but that might have been an order for Gordon to get her. When Batman comes upon Harvey he doesn't act surprised, but goes straight for him. I think he intended to got after Dent the whole time.

Gordon was great in this movie. Probably my best portrayal of him since "The Killing Joke" and Gary Oldman gets major props. He seriously rocks the mustache.

I just wish they had shown Leob to be corrupt. It would make Gordon's appointment as commish a lot more powerful.

 

[OdoWanKenobi]

The scene went something like this:

Gordon: Who are you going after?
Batman: Rachael!
Gordon: Alright, we'll get Dent.

It was pretty clear that the Joker switched the locations around. It's a cruel thing and very much a Joker thing to do.

 

[TheLonelySquire]

Hey guys,

Based on your recommendations I will certainly see this film or get in on BluRay. I really never thought much of the previous films but Batman was my favorite as a kid. I have one of the giant sized reprints of the #1 issue too.

I'm just shocked you guys think it was so great. now I have to see it.

Thanks.

 

[DarthPipes]

Batman set the opening day mark with $66.4 million...

http://ap.google.com/article/ALeqM5iUrp4FEo_7YQxrTpBze-Hk4ob7PAD92104UG0

 

[Cyke101]

Average.

I don't know. I went to see it with my mind open because the trailers didn't do much for me. I just had problems with the pacing and well the dialogue. It wasn't that it was horrible, it was that I couldn't UNDERSTAND THEM. The fight scenes were as good as Batman Begins, both good and bad. It was hard to see what the hell was going on for the most part.

The Joker surprised me. I rather have a more lunatic Joker, like Ledger played for the most part, than...well Nicholson. The other problem I had was with the Joker. He was good, very good but I rather have him completely off the hook and completely insane than having him try to pull back that insanity.

It wasn't as bad as Transformers but it wasn't as fun as the first Batman.

My thoughts exactly! Don't get me wrong I think it's a good film but the ending really ticked me off. Maybe I have to watch it a couple of more times but I'm sticking with my B+ rating.

Heh, this is in no way to criticize your post, but I think it's a bit telling of the movie's impact when people go, "Bah! This movie isn't as good as I hoped for! It's only a B PLUS!!!"

Anyway, I'm giving this movie the highest score I can think of. My only complaints:

Spoiler: Boo.

no scenes of the Joker interacting with Alfred and/or Lucious, as both of them are very wise indeed, and... *sigh* the Batmobile, may you RIP.

By the way, let me say that, last year, I was one of those naysayers who doubted Heath Ledger would succeed in this role. By God, was I ever wrong. I've rarely been so pleasantly surprised to be proven wrong than with that performance.

Also, thank God for Gordon. I look back at the Burton/Schumacher films and see how criminally underused Gordon was there. This time around, he's kickin' ass and takin' names! Whoo-hoo!

 

[archeryguy1701]

I recall that he said "Rachel" as well, but that might have been an order for Gordon to get her. When Batman comes upon Harvey he doesn't act surprised, but goes straight for him. I think he intended to got after Dent the whole time.

I am 100% positive that Batman said he was going for Rachel. Maybe that scene could have been acted a bit better to convey more surprise, but it wouldn't be like he would have a ton of time to stand there and go, "Well crap! You're not who I wanted to see right now!"