Niners: what are your opinions on the 4 TNG films?

[Can]

I see Generations not as a movie but as a two parter finale of Star Trek TNG. Real finale I mean. "All Good Things" was OK , had ups and downs but Generations give some kind of nostalgic finale with destruction of Enterprise-D. Besides whole movie had still tv show outlook , editing and producing..Not a bad thing and decent ending for TNG tv series but it is just mediocre as a stand alone movie. If you are not a Trek fan you just leave it in the middle...

First Contact is very very good , best TNG movie. From beginning to end it grips you and never lets you go.

I can not understand why Insurrection gets so much flame from fans. It had a decent staory , acting and production values. I am not saying it is the best movie or something far from it but it had main Trek elements (social/political message , idealism , standing up for right thing and good character interaction) and it hold together well to the end , gave us an interesting and entertaining story...If you try to do epic in every movie (like saving world/universe all the time ) the concept of epic loses its meaning. That's why smaller stories like this works for me sometimes...

Less said for Nemesis better. It was a complate waste of TNG crew we love and talented Tom Hardy who did his best. It had wrong director and set up as an action movie so it had fallen apart...

 

[grabmygoblin]

jimbtnp2, we get it, you like Nemesis, but didn't you just make two threads explaining how you disliked DS9?

(I only want the Niners' opinions on this...so Mods, do not move this to the Movie forum. Thanks.)

(emphasis mine)

 

[Mr. Fergy]

^ He ACTUALLY liked Nemesis? YIKES!!!!!!!

BTW:Like allot of you I am also a HUGE TNG fan as well, and I HATED Nemesis.

 

[Mr. Fergy]

How is Nemesis revisionist?

FC was extremely revisionist - Nano probes, Borg Queen, Z Cochran - all vastly changed from the TV series - however it was done well

Hello?

The whole "Evil Twin" thing? remember Lore? Did Lore simply not exist? B4, acting retarded? This is a Positronic Android for goodness sakes!

Also, why in the holy the F?@* is Wesley back, as a LTJG, nonetheless! He's supposed to be off with the Traveler, and resigned from the Academy as a Cadet? Remember, Wes was not only a guest at Troi-Riker Wedding, but in dress whites to w/comission?

Should I go on? I think you get the point.

Hello what? Lore was the evil twin has barring on B4 ? How if they CHANGED LORE. How does B4's existence chnage Lore - it doesn't

Wesley as a throw any background charcter is an issue with you? PLEASE

Again the revisions in FC i've stated stand - and the points you make about Nemesis don't

jimbtnp2

I give up. I really doubt you're even much of a true TNG fan. You obviously have no concept what TNG universe is about. There is much more to Star tTek than TOS. What World do you live in for I can't figure why such a naysayer such as his self gets their jollies pissing-off people that mostly do not agree with you. The MOD very recently shut down 2 of your threads in this forum alone. That should be a hint, that this isn't a game and you "words" can hurt your fellow fan. I'm simply going to ignore you and your post until you basically become more compassionate. In the meanwhile I suggest you check out The Neutral Zone Forum. You'll fit right in.

BTW: I don't hate you. I just disagree you post right now. Also congragulations on your promotion, Commander.

 

[Thrall]

The only good one was First Contact. The rest were totally forgettable.

 

[jimbtnp2]

I see Generations not as a movie but as a two parter finale of Star Trek TNG. Real finale I mean. "All Good Things" was OK , had ups and downs but Generations give some kind of nostalgic finale with destruction of Enterprise-D. Besides whole movie had still tv show outlook , editing and producing..Not a bad thing and decent ending for TNG tv series but it is just mediocre as a stand alone movie. If you are not a Trek fan you just leave it in the middle...

First Contact is very very good , best TNG movie. From beginning to end it grips you and never lets you go.

I can not understand why Insurrection gets so much flame from fans. It had a decent staory , acting and production values. I am not saying it is the best movie or something far from it but it had main Trek elements (social/political message , idealism , standing up for right thing and good character interaction) and it hold together well to the end , gave us an interesting and entertaining story...If you try to do epic in every movie (like saving world/universe all the time ) the concept of epic loses its meaning. That's why smaller stories like this works for me sometimes...

Less said for Nemesis better. It was a complate waste of TNG crew we love and talented Tom Hardy who did his best. It had wrong director and set up as an action movie so it had fallen apart...

Putting ST aside for the moment - Insurrection is poorly crafted movie - the plot is ridiculous, the singging and dancing scenes were awful - the villians were what members of a race that left and come back a hundred years later and then are actual familiy members of the planet's population?

Again over reliance on the holodreck and goofy Humor - boob jokes, zits

Nemesis - at least had a plot, a great script, score and theme - most causal ST fans I know liked Nemesis - thought insurrection was weak

 

[jimbtnp2]

Hello?

The whole "Evil Twin" thing? remember Lore? Did Lore simply not exist? B4, acting retarded? This is a Positronic Android for goodness sakes!

Also, why in the holy the F?@* is Wesley back, as a LTJG, nonetheless! He's supposed to be off with the Traveler, and resigned from the Academy as a Cadet? Remember, Wes was not only a guest at Troi-Riker Wedding, but in dress whites to w/comission?

Should I go on? I think you get the point.

Hello what? Lore was the evil twin has barring on B4 ? How if they CHANGED LORE. How does B4's existence chnage Lore - it doesn't

Wesley as a throw any background charcter is an issue with you? PLEASE

Again the revisions in FC i've stated stand - and the points you make about Nemesis don't

jimbtnp2

I give up. I really doubt you're even much of a true TNG fan. You obviously have no concept what TNG universe is about. There is much more to Star tTek than TOS. What World do you live in for I can't figure why such a naysayer such as his self gets their jollies pissing-off people that mostly do not agree with you. The MOD very recently shut down 2 of your threads in this forum alone. That should be a hint, that this isn't a game and you "words" can hurt your fellow fan. I'm simply going to ignore you and your post until you basically become more compassionate. In the meanwhile I suggest you check out The Neutral Zone Forum. You'll fit right in.

BTW: I don't hate you. I just disagree you post right now. Also congragulations on your promotion, Commander.

First - no problem - how can you hate someone over a ST message board?
I have no coincept of what the TNG universe is about? LOL
I think it is you who has no concept of ST that's TOS and TNG S1 - when the ST creator GR still had influence

Im not trying to piss anyone off I'm stating why ST is in the SH#Ter and why and what we need to bring it back

 

[JanineSal]

With the exception of "First Contact", they were all crap. And as much as I liked "First Contact", it was marred by some plot holes.

 

[jimbtnp2]

With the exception of "First Contact", they were all crap. And as much as I liked "First Contact", it was marred by some plot holes.

I don;t see any real plot holes in FC - just some revisions from the series to enhance the movie - even if contradicting

 

[jimbtnp2]

With the exception of "First Contact", they were all crap. And as much as I liked "First Contact", it was marred by some plot holes.

I don;t see any real plot holes in FC - just some revisions from the series to enhance the movie - even if contradicting

Generations was a soso TV episode

Insurrection was a bad TV episode

Nemesis was the best TNG movie IMHO

 

[grabmygoblin]

you've moved from repeating yourself to outright quoting yourself...

 

[Lord Garth]

Seriously, what were your reactions to GEN, FC, INS, and NEM, especially in comparison to the events, the writing, and the creativity involved in DS9?

Standing the movies and DS9 next to each other did not put the movies in a favorable comparison. The movies felt more superficial, as if they were scraping a surface that DS9 mined. Moreover, DS9 was playing to its strengths while TNG was being forced to become something it wasn't.

Did you also want there to be a DS9 film?

No. This is not the type of series that should have a movie. Part of the reason The Final Chapter was 10 hours was because there was so much story it couldn't all just be wrapped up in one or two. Continuing the story in a movie wouldn't be any different. A DS9 mini-series that was either produced for cable or straight-to-DVD would be a different story.

A DS9 film under the production of Rick Berman?

Absolutely not. I would prefer Ron Moore.

What did you think of the overall disclusion of DS9 from the "TNG film-verse?" Was the brief appearance of the USS Defiant and the name dropping of the "Dominion War" enough for you?

At the time I was a little disappointed but now that I think about it, I'm glad the TNG movies didn't step on DS9's toes. FC proved that TNG could do a good (not necessarily great) movie that had nothing to do with DS9. INS should've done the same as it could've done more with its plot. NEM was the one chance to show, in earnest, a post-DS9 Star Trek universe and four years was enough time to change things around enough for TNG's purposes. It was a wasted opportunity.

Did you consider the quality of the 4 TNG films to be on par or below that of the usual DS9 episode?

Below. There's a lot more to DS9 than any of the TNG movies.

Finally, if there were 4 DS9 feature films made, what would you want the overall plot to be for the 4 films. Would you want them to be standalone films or connected like the TOS feature films?

DS9 as a series was connected so why should the movies be any different if there were to have been any? I don't think there should've been DS9 movies but if we had to have them, probably something that directly affects Bajor and DS9 instead of the entire Alpha Quadrant as the story should be DS9-specific if you're introducing DS9 to a movie audience, instead of Star Trek in general in which case DS9 could look interchangable.

 

[HRHTheKING]

All the TNG movies were garbage except for FC.

 

[Mr. Fergy]

^I agree, unfortunately.

 

[Robotech Master]

I quite enjoyed Generations (despite its serious flaws).

First Contact was a blast. It was fun, well made and should have been the swan song for the cast.

Insurrection and Nemesis were horrible. Along with Voyager and Enterprise, they simply don't exist to me.

 

[Mr. Fergy]

^ I wish that in can "void' that part of Trek out as well.

 

[Vonstadt]

I think I can honestly say I prefered TV Trek to Movie Trek. I've found too many consistency problems and poor writing was generally on the average more apparent in the movies. (Studio Involvement, Actor's ego's....etc.)

As a Niner, well here is how I saw the TOS Films :

ST: TMP - Not a bad outing, once you get by the very silly pajama look to the uniforms, over all I did like the story it was neat and thought provoking. I don't mind a film that is not just space balltes and explosions. Rating - B-

Star Trek II - TWoK - Nice, my favorite TOS film, it had just a little bit of everything. I really didnt even mind the new crimson uniforms and Ricardo was simply delightful as the main villian. A nice blend of coming to terms with middle age and death and space born action. The ties to Horatio Hornblower and 'Enemy Below' were a nice touch too. Rating - A

Star Trek III - TSFS - A large movie produced TV episode, really not as good as two or one for me, the Klingons were a nice touch and I did love to see Christopher Loyd's over the top Kruge. Rating - C

Star Trek IV - TVH - Fun! Cute and Charming for me the second best of the TOS films. Rating - A-

Star Trek V - TFF - Ugh, sorry this was painful to watch. Even if Shatner had been given his budget to do the rock monster thing...too much went wrong here. Rating - D

Star Trek VI - TUC - All right a decent entertaining send off. Too many silly jokes and over the top things but overall a nice story. Chang was great and I had fun watching. Rating - B+

TOS Films in comparions to DS9 overall = DS9 for the win. I have always seen the series as one 7 season long film itself. It is a very well done arc that starts slow and unsure and builds up to a great and astounding middle and though a little weak on the end..it was a great inovated take on the Star Trek Universe and added some much needed depth to it (I even liked hearing the UFP National Anthem )

As for the TNG Movies? Um I am not really a major fan of any of them.

GEN - Not a bad cross over, so many missed opppurtunites were in this film and some things too much to swallow (The destruction of the Enterprise for one was definitely contrived and not a fitting way to do it imo) Kirk's death ...meh. Alot of this film felt contrived..I would've enjoyed seeing the initial Romulan attack to set the stage (and see some romulans for a change) but oh well. Rating - C

FC - Easily the best of the three but once more flawed. The Borg Queen seemed unecessary, the focus on a Revamped Zephram Cochrne in stead of the Borg threat seemed unnecessary (Was a bit tired of time travel stories..we just had one in GEN....and TVH...not too mention TNG series finale) But it was funt o watch...just so many nitpicks. I still watch this one occasionally when it is on the SciFi channel or if I choose the DvD. Rating - C+

INS - Boring, much like a two part TV episode instead of a major motion picture. I mean this was a chance to showcase the flagship during the Dominion war..if not to show the war, atleast show what may draw their attention away during such a vast conflict. Or have the effects of the war show on the characters...there was nothing...poor writing. rating - D

NEM - Um... too much to go into for me here. Some things i liked ,....most I did not. Hardly a fitting end to the TNG crew, but it was over atleast, which may not have been a bad thing for the TNG films seemed to be just getting worse Rating - F

And finally did I want a DS9 movie. Actually no. I thought the series did fine on its own and its own medium. I belive it was best to let it stand as it is.

No Movie required

just my two cents

Vons

 

[DarKush]

TOS Films:

STMP-I didn't like. I still can't watch it without falling asleep.

TWOK-Loved it. It's my third favorite Trek film.

TSFS-My appreciation for this film grew over time. At first I didn't like Lloyd's performance as Kruge, but now I see it as a forerunner for the TNG Klingons.

TVH-I enjoyed this one. Very well done, and a Trek comedy that didn't appear forced.

TFF-Many hate this film, but I read the novelization before I saw it, loved the novel, and I'm not as hostile to the film. Though I do wish they had replaced Klaa with a Romulan commander.

TUC-My favorite Trek film. The perfect end to the TOS film franchise and series.

TNG Films:

GEN-I liked it better when it came out. Over time I started to see more flaws with this film. I think they made Picard too much of a wimp in comparison to Shatner. There were some parts that just dragged as well. I'm not too vexed about Kirk's death, though I do wish it had been on the bridge of the Enterprise-that seemed more fitting. However, I enjoyed many of the character moments in the film. It was cool seeing the Big D on the silver screen. I also enjoyed the mixing of the uniforms, and some of Picard's lines about immortality, etc. This one felt the most like TNG.

FC-My second favorite Trek film. Though I think the introduction of the Borg Queen truly spelled the end of the Borg as an interesting villianous species, Alice Krige did a good job with it. I do wish that Sisko had been in the film though, even though I don't know how he would've fit. It seemed like Picard's arc would've worked just as well, maybe better for Sisko. But unfortunately the Picard/Data dynamic seemed to really kick into gear with this film, and I think it made the subsequent films less enjoyable because it took away from the ensemble. Picard isn't a punk like in GEN but he's not Rambo either. I think TPTB swung the pendulum too far in that regard and it started in this film.

INS-I thought this film was okay. Sometimes the humor worked, sometimes it didn't. I also thought the Son'a were interesting villians, though underdeveloped. My main gripe with this film is that I wish it had been a Dominion War movie. I think it was a wasted opportunity. The Dominion would've been better adversaries, and I think it might've sparked more interest in DS9 if fans wanted to see the continuation/conclusion of the war.

NEM-A big disappointment. I liked it better when I watched it on TV. But this was truly a wasted opportunity. I was hoping that TNG went out on a high note, perhaps with peace with the Romulans. I think the writers are so stuck on TWOK that they don't emulate some of the other successful Trek films (not to mention the idea of perhaps doing something original or taking from another movie/TV/book franchise). I think the NEM guys messed up by not going for copying TUC instead. Also, the lack of character moments, the rushed reaction to Data's demise, the unnecessary Troi rape scene (how many times do they have to mentally rape her?) I think there could've been a better way to give her and Riker something to do. Small things like the lack of explanation for why Worf was back on the Enterprise, or Wesley being back in a Starfleet uniform, no mention of Lore when B4 was found, etc. I thought Tom Hardy did fine as Shinzon, but the Remans were made up to be too nightmarish and screamed stocked baddies.

 

[UnknownSample]

Generations--- I like it more and more. Last time I saw it, it hit me as no other Trek film ever has. One by one, the small things that irritated me have fallen away, such as Data's obnoxious jokes: he wasn't supposed to be funny, he was supposed to be in trouble, and once I got that, it helped. This is top of the Trek film list for me now.

First Contact-- Very good, but various things irritate me. The Borg can travel in time, so why don't they use that to win all the time, and why not go back in time in a nice quiet location in space where no Enterprise will be there to follow, then travel to the place they want to conquer?
Picard shows up and takes out the cube in five seconds.
In general, the Borg were done much better in Q Who and BOBW, and this seemed warmed-over, a sort of forced reappearance of the Borg so that they could use them in a film. The Borg Queen makes the Borg a more conventional enemy with an "evil leader", when the depersonalization of the Borg was what was so disturbing about them.

Insurrection--- rented it, got bored, couldn't keep my eyes on the screen the whole time. I need a second viewing.

Nemesis-- Had weirdness going for it I guess. I need a second viewing of this too. Not as bad as most original cast films I suppose. Picard clone looked nothing like him except for being bald. It wasn't really a science fiction film, it was more like an action film with a James Bond villain.

 

[jgdst]

I actually enjoy all four films on their own merits (I know some people believe that at least three of them don't have any "merits" )

Generations had a kind of family film feel to it, something for Kirk fans, something for TNG fans, though it didn't dawn on me til years later that the way they dispatched with Kirk was kinda insensitive. Hmm... should I have put that in a spoiler?

First Contact has to be the strongest of the TNG films. The only little discrepancies are script errors (for instance the changing number of decks the Enterprise has). The previous poster echoed my feelings on why the Borg didn't always use time travel to conquer Earth, but I'm willing to let that go... It's probably the same reason they only ever send one cube at a time. I think this film did a lot for making the Borg even more disturbing, possibly due to the introduction of the Borg Queen, but I think the overuse of the Borg in Voyager did a lot of damage to them as a villain.

Insurrection - True, this was like a big budget two parter, but it was good to see a seedy side of the Federation, willing to ignore the Prime Directive to their own ends, and Picard standing up to them. It started expanding on DS9's notion that maybe Paradise wasn't all it was cracked up to be. There's something almost Section 31-esque about it. I think it was good to keep the Dominion War out of it (except for the fleeting reference), as that was introducing too much backstory for non-Trek fans, or non-DS9 fans. I especially liked how they got round Worf's presence - just talk over it and push it to the background, no-one'll notice

Nemesis, I want to say this was a good film, but 6 years on, the failings have become more apparent: the various plot holes and contrived storylines ("Screw the Prime Directive" when they found B-4, for example), the almost retcon of young Picard, the sidelining of La Forge, Worf used as a comedic punchbag (and digitally editing his voice to make it lower... WHY?!). I think the major problem was that Stuart Baird either didn't know how to handle the Trek universe, or just simply decided that the film would be in his image first, and Trek second (which is why I think Frakes is the superior director for the films). The weirdest thing about this film is they seemed to cut some of the best scenes - the turbolift attack, Wesley Crusher's amazing one-line comeback (), and my personal favourite, Picard's speach about the Beagle setting off with a single musket ("How far we've come...") because apparently bordering on 90 minutes is too long for a film now...

I admit I use my love of Trek to blind me from some of the shortfalls of the movies. It keeps me happy at least...