The John Adams mini-series is outstanding

[Brolan]

I just finished watching the John Adams mini-series on DVD. It is nothing less than outstanding.

Most films of this period seem fake to me; the actors are modern men just playing a role (badly). But this series really sold me. It looked like a window into the past. A past where the revolution was far from certain and the American nation was just a lofty ideal.

My favorite scene is one where the Continental Congress finally passes the resolution to split from Great Britain. But instead of cheers from the group there is a kind of stunned silence as they realize the gravity of what they have done.

If you have any interest in history, or the forming of the American nation, see this series.

 

[CaptainCanada]

I thought it was pretty good, though the third episode kind of drags.

As per HBO, you get some rather disturbing images from the period; I still shudder at that depiction of a 19th century mastectomy.

There's one scene in the final episode that I've never quite known what to make of; Adams goes on this rant about not altering historical representation for story purposes which is played totally straight, which, if so, is incredibly hypocritical, because this series does that as much as any.

 

[Temis the Vorta]

I loved it. Where does it diverge from history?

Was the depiction of Thomas Jefferson accurate? His historical image is pretty different - a sort of Apollo come down from Mount Olympus to spread his glorious genius to mere mortals - but the guy in the miniseries was almost creepy.

 

[Squiggy]

I loved it too...portrayed Adams as a tragic hero who burned a lot of bridges for the good of the nation.

 

[CaptainCanada]

I loved it. Where does it diverge from history?

There's nothing especially big, but various story points, some of which:

- Two of the British soldiers Adams defended in the Boston Massacre case were convicted, whereas in the series he gets them all off.

- The series has Col. Smith leave his family behind while he goes out in search of prospects, but in reality they went with him.

- The series has Adams as VP break a tie to pass the Jay Treaty, which, A) never happened and B) wouldn't work, because treaties require a two-thirds vote to pass.

- The very scene in question is an example, because Adams' comments on viewing the mural didn't include what he says in the series, and it is stated there that Adams and Jefferson are the only signatories left, when in reality Charles Carroll of Carrollton outlived both of them.

- In the series, Abigail's death in 1818 leads to his reconciliation with Jefferson, but in reality the Adams/Jefferson correspondence began in 1812 (this also prolongs the life of Doctor Rush by 5 years, since he died in 1813).

I don't have a problem with any of this in the service of a good story, but, as I said, I've just never been clear what we were supposed to take away from Adams' rant, given all this.

 

[Squiggy]

Also, in the naval engagement on the way to France, the officer depicted who died right after he got his leg amputated right after the battle in fact lost his leg several days after an unrelated incident and died a week after.

The engagement was bloodless, but makes for bad drama.

Also, while in France, Mrs. Adams makes note that Mrs. Franklin wouldn't approve of Ben's cavorting with with French countess. Mrs. Franklin died in 1774.

 

[DarthPipes]

I thought it was great. I picked up the DVD a few weeks ago. I was a fan of the book and thought they did a great job with the adaptation.

This is despite the historical inaccuracies. The final episode was riddled with them. Nabby Adams died in 1813, not 1803. It wasn't Dr. Rush who performed the surgery on her, although he consulted the Adams via letter. Adams started writing Jefferson in 1812 when Abigail was still alive, not after her death in 1818. Probably the most ridiculous inaccuracy was when Adams viewed John Trumbull's painting of the Declaration of Independence in 1826 and criticizing Trumbull for all the historical accuracy. This is so funny because the entire scene was historically inaccurate. Adams viewed Trumbull's painting sometimes between 1818 to 1820. It was a public viewing (without JQA present) and his only comment was to mention where George Washington had stood when Adams had nominated him years earlier. His views about the accuracy of the painting were mentioned in letters.

That misinformation really annoyed me about the last segment but it didn't ruin my enjoyment of what was, the most part, an excellent mini-series. I wish HBO would do more of these historical shows. Something on JQA would be excellent. Just finished a book about him recently.

 

[Maestro]

Was the depiction of Thomas Jefferson accurate? His historical image is pretty different - a sort of Apollo come down from Mount Olympus to spread his glorious genius to mere mortals - but the guy in the miniseries was almost creepy.

I am reading Joseph Ellis's American Sphinx right now, and although I have not see the John Adams mini (I have read McCullough's book, though), I would say that the latter portrayal of Jefferson was more accurate than the first, although creepy isn't quite right either.

 

[Brolan]

I had a question on Thomas Jefferson. Did he really fund a smear campaign against Adams? It doesn't seem like he would do that to his friend.

 

[Temis the Vorta]

The actors' mannerisms were creepy. That's just the way it came off to me. It was an oddball way to interpret Jefferson, I thought.

 

[CaptainCanada]

Just finished a book about him recently.

Mr. Adams's Last Crusade, by chance? I finished that a week or so ago; excellent.

 

[Squiggy]

Was the depiction of Thomas Jefferson accurate? His historical image is pretty different - a sort of Apollo come down from Mount Olympus to spread his glorious genius to mere mortals - but the guy in the miniseries was almost creepy.

I am reading Joseph Ellis's American Sphinx right now, and although I have not see the John Adams mini (I have read McCullough's book, though), I would say that the latter portrayal of Jefferson was more accurate than the first, although creepy isn't quite right either.

Jefferson reminded me of that kid from American Beauty that filmed everything. Sorta creepy, sorta not. Sorta weird, sorta not. Hard to define.

 

[Maestro]

When I finish the Ellis book, I'll pick up the Adams mini and get back to you. Your comments, Squiggy, in context, probably tie together to a very accurate description of Jefferson.

 

[DarthPipes]

Just finished a book about him recently.

Mr. Adams's Last Crusade, by chance? I finished that a week or so ago; excellent.

Yep. Finished it last week and I thought it was excellent as well. Despite JQA's faults, I couldn't help by develop a great admiration for him. He personified the word "duty" and makes today's politicians look like intellectual lightweights. It's a shame we don't have more people like him in public service.

Jefferson did indeed fund a smear campaign against Adams. Back in those days, politicians and others would start papers just to slam their opponents. This really set up off Abigail when she learned about it and was the reason Adams didn't speak with TJ so long. The Campaign of 1800 was the first real ugly campaign in American history.

 

[Temis the Vorta]

Was the depiction of Thomas Jefferson accurate? His historical image is pretty different - a sort of Apollo come down from Mount Olympus to spread his glorious genius to mere mortals - but the guy in the miniseries was almost creepy.

I am reading Joseph Ellis's American Sphinx right now, and although I have not see the John Adams mini (I have read McCullough's book, though), I would say that the latter portrayal of Jefferson was more accurate than the first, although creepy isn't quite right either.

Jefferson reminded me of that kid from American Beauty that filmed everything. Sorta creepy, sorta not. Sorta weird, sorta not. Hard to define.

You mean, the sort of person who is so intellectual that they seem oddly disassociated from what's going on around them? Yeah, I definitely got that feeling. Once or twice, Jefferson expressed some radical views that struck me as maybe careless or heartless - not entirely attentive to the consequences of what he was espousing - just because they were the "pure" expression of the Revolution. I was just curious whether this is really what he was like, and I wouldn't be surprised if he was.

 

[Maestro]

Ellis paints Jefferson as being extremely introverted and ultra private. According to Ellis, all Jefferson wanted to do was retire to Monticello and pursue is private interests. I would see that translating into seeming oddly disassociated with what's going on around them.

 

[doubleohfive]

RedFenix gave it to me for my birthday... so I'm looking forward to watching it. Good to hear its so well done though.

 

[DarthPipes]

I read that Jefferson disdained public speaking. He had a lisp and often mumbled when speaking. He was said to be good in small groups and not with larger crowds. He preferred to do his work behind closed doors and with his quill. As a result, he only gave two public speeches during his presidency. His two Inaugeration Addresses.

 

[Brolan]

Just finished a book about him recently.

Mr. Adams's Last Crusade, by chance? I finished that a week or so ago; excellent.

Yep. Finished it last week and I thought it was excellent as well. Despite JQA's faults, I couldn't help by develop a great admiration for him. He personified the word "duty" and makes today's politicians look like intellectual lightweights. It's a shame we don't have more people like him in public service.

Jefferson did indeed fund a smear campaign against Adams. Back in those days, politicians and others would start papers just to slam their opponents. This really set up off Abigail when she learned about it and was the reason Adams didn't speak with TJ so long. The Campaign of 1800 was the first real ugly campaign in American history.

I'm disappointed to hear that. Adams and Jefferson are shown to be close friends and for Jefferson to do that is real stab-in-the-back. Adams has a lot more forgiveness than I have.

 

[Maestro]

John Adams was also a blowhard who loved the sound of his own voice waaaaaaay too much and spent a lot of the Revolution and subsequent years working to insure his place of greatness in history.

Adams was the only President of the Senate who actually presided on a regular basis, and he annoyed a lot of people. The Senate was happy to have him replace Washington as President just so they didn't have to listen to him blather. The term that Adams served as President and Jefferson as VP was where they really split in their friendship, and it wasn't until long after Jefferson's term as President was up before they reconciled.