Time and Again

[Adm_Hawthorne]

This is an okay episode. It's one of the very few J/P's we see, and I appreciated the write up to expand their relationship, but something always
bothered me about this episode... Kes.

Well, really the use of Kes here. I thought it was very poorly done. It was like her scenes were an after thought, and the writers put them in there to add some character depth to Kes, but didn't consider how the whole episode flowed.

The actions that the crew took did make some sense. I think they would have looked for Janeway with or without Kes. I think they still would have tried to find her at the point where the explosion took place. I think that Chakotay would have even been as determined. But, why was Kes there? She was there because she "had to do down to that planet"? I don't understand why that's a good reason given the fact that she had yet to really show any telepathic anything. Why is she going down there? Why are the crew taking her thoughts at face value without any real reason to?
I like Kes. I think her character had some neat stuff, and I think she could have been used really effectively in this episode if more character explanation had happened through out.

In addition, Tuvok is so flat as a character it hurts. "I must point out that it is highly unlikely that Captain Janeway" would have been here, but "since I do not have any better suggestions, I advise that we proceed". It's like badly written fanfic.

Again, he offers nothing to the plot, his comments are not even helpful let alone character building, and they seem so out of character for even just the 3 episode of the series.

I feel this episode had great idea, but was poorly written. Thoughts?

 

[DanCPA]

I thought the Tuvok scenes were there to show him disagreeing with Chakotay. Given the 1st two eps, I liked that Tuvok continued to be smug to Chakotay. As for Kes, I doubt that Janeway would have taken her, but Chakotay has been working without a manual for some time... he does what needs to be done to accomplish the mission

I would have liked to have seen more tension between Chakotay and Tuvok in all honesty. Here we are... lost in the Delta Quadrant. The Captain is lost and presumably dead... And Tuvok has to accept the orders of a maquis, a man who up until 2 weeks ago was a federation renegade... I think that was a great drama point that wasn't exploited

 

[kimc]

I would have liked to have seen more tension between Chakotay and Tuvok in all honesty. Here we are... lost in the Delta Quadrant. The Captain is lost and presumably dead... And Tuvok has to accept the orders of a maquis, a man who up until 2 weeks ago was a federation renegade... I think that was a great drama point that wasn't exploited

The whole Chakotay/Tuvok dynamic and their differing opionions when advising Janeway was an angle that could have been exploited much more imo.

As for "Time and Again" I'm not too fond of time travel episodes to begin with - especially ones where the crew doesn't even remember what happened. What's the point?

 

[DanCPA]

The whole Chakotay/Tuvok dynamic and their differing opionions when advising Janeway was an angle that could have been exploited much more imo.

Oh, very much so. Personally, I loved the scenes where Chakotay pulls rank on Tuvok

As for "Time and Again" I'm not too fond of time travel episodes to begin with - especially ones where the crew doesn't even remember what happened. What's the point?

The point is to tell a great story. And on this occasion they almost pulled it off... While I do agree that there should be some character development and no weekly reset button, I think "what if" scenarios work great for sci fi, and can live with a reset button once in a while, provided it gives us a great story!

 

[kimc]

The point is to tell a great story. And on this occasion they almost pulled it off... While I do agree that there should be some character development and no weekly reset button, I think "what if" scenarios work great for sci fi, and can live with a reset button once in a while, provided it gives us a great story!

Well this particular story didn't do much for me. I believe as a series Voyager used time travel way too much. Not only do you have this episode but then there's "Year of Hell" where the main villain is altering time for potential personal gain. Not that the crew remembers because there's the reset button. What a shame since the lesson of "Year of Hell" was one Janeway could have used when she set out to alter time for personal gain in "Endgame".

 

[DanCPA]

So, without the YOH reset button, there is no Endgame...

Oh yeesh... just imagine how much worst it could have been! I mean, Endgame was bad... but imagine what the alternatives could be!

As for time travel, we've heard Janeway say that she doesn't like it... Yet she does it at every turn

 

[Adm_Hawthorne]

I think that part of the reason why I didn't like it was because of the total lack of confrontation between Chakotay and Tuvok. In all logic, Tuvok should have been trying to find some way to keep the crew moving, and Chakotay should have been fighting him tooth and nail to the point that confrontation took place that reminded Tuvok he was ranked below Chakotay.

Instead, we got 'Oh, look, he's talking. Eh, whatever...' kind of responses.
Another thing is that Kes did remember the episode... maybe? That's a problem here. We don't know what she knows. We get Neelix telling her that's its all a dream. What's a dream? What did she see? What's going on?

They could have used this as a way to show Kes coming into her powers instead of showing how Neelix treats her. *sigh*

 

[DanCPA]

but why would Tuvok simply want to abandon his Captain and friend?

 

[Adm_Hawthorne]

but why would Tuvok simply want to abandon his Captain and friend?

It's a logic thing. It simply is not logical to spend valued (and small amounts) of supplies trying to recover two crew members who are unknown to still be alive. It would be more logical to take those precious resources and use them to continue traveling homeward.

In addition, Tuvok knows what the wishes of Janeway would be. In fact, he states them time and again. Those wishes would not have included a rescue attempt.

 

[DanCPA]

It's a logic thing. It simply is not logical to spend valued (and small amounts) of supplies trying to recover two crew members who are unknown to still be alive.

But it's also not logical to even attempt to continue on the voyager without Janeway. No doubt there would be problems with Chakotay and Tuvok later one

 

[Lynx]

"Time And Again" is a great episode, one of my top 10 favorites.

Normally I do have problems with those "alternate timelines" and "reset button" episodes but this one works out fine.

I think that the reason for Kes being there is simply to present the character's mental abilities in the same way that Troi's abilities were showed up in "Encounter At Farpoint" but I think that Kes's abilities are used better in this episode than Troi's in "Farpoint". Since Kes did have the dream or premonition about what happened on that planet, it was expected that she would be in the away team since her abilities could help them to track Janeway and Paris, which was also what happened.

I don't think this episode is badly written, on the contrary it's one of the better stories in this early stage of the series and also a point when the series takes off. Adfter the wonderful pilot episode and "Parallax" which was like a sequel to the pilot, mostly dealing with Torres's problems and how she dealt with them, "Time And Again" is the episode which takes the story further and a very different and unexpected story too.

Definitely one of the best season 1 episodes.

 

[Adm_Hawthorne]

It's a logic thing. It simply is not logical to spend valued (and small amounts) of supplies trying to recover two crew members who are unknown to still be alive.

But it's also not logical to even attempt to continue on the voyager without Janeway. No doubt there would be problems with Chakotay and Tuvok later one

Not true. A crew can survive the loss of their Capatin. Just because there would be conflict with the remaining command staff does not mean that the loss of the few should be held over the needs of the many. There is no logic spending precious time and resources trying to save 2 crewmembers that may already be dead when there are a 100 more that should be moved closer toward the alpha quadrant.

Janeway was a key part of keeping the two crews together, but only later on in the season. At that point, it was the determination of both Chakotay and Janeway keeping it intacted, and Chakotay would have been able to command without her assuming her made Tuvok his second. Given the conditions of the crew, there would have been no reason for him not to do so and every reason for him to.

Don't get me wrong. I adore Janeway more than most of you posting now days will know or remember. But, Tuvok's actions did not reflect a logical detailing of what should be going on. There should have been an attempt to contact Janeway (which was made), and, after trying x amount of times or speninding x amount of time on it, they should have left. I believe they would have remained there forever if they hadn't finally found her by random chance. That certainly isn't logical at all.

 

[kimc]

So, without the YOH reset button, there is no Endgame...

Just a thought that popped into my head the other day...

Oh yeesh... just imagine how much worst it could have been! I mean, Endgame was bad... but imagine what the alternatives could be!

Considering the fact that "Endgame" is one of those episodes I can't bear to re-watch I'm not sure how much worse it can get!

 

[kimc]

Don't get me wrong. I adore Janeway more than most of you posting now days will know or remember.

Oh I remember! (BTW, great avatar and it's nice to have you back)

But, Tuvok's actions did not reflect a logical detailing of what should be going on. There should have been an attempt to contact Janeway (which was made), and, after trying x amount of times or speninding x amount of time on it, they should have left. I believe they would have remained there forever if they hadn't finally found her by random chance. That certainly isn't logical at all.

As a Tuvie fan I have to agree. While Janeway was his close friend Tuvok would ultimately do what is logical and best for the crew.

 

[JNG]

I feel this episode had great idea, but was poorly written. Thoughts?

Personally, I think it was a little too similar to the time business in the previous episode to be considered "great." I remember being worried about the series as a whole when the first couple of regular episodes had to reach for this.

 

[KayArr]

I saw this a couple months ago, and I don't even remember Tuvok, Chakotay, and Kes being in it--all I remember is kickass Janeway, the way she took comand of things, the sheer physicality of her...my love of Janeway began right here with this episode.

 

[Adm_Hawthorne]

I saw this a couple months ago, and I don't even remember Tuvok, Chakotay, and Kes being in it--all I remember is kickass Janeway, the way she took comand of things, the sheer physicality of her...my love of Janeway began right here with this episode.

Yes, Janeway is indeed fabulous. There is no doubt about that.

*raises a coffee mug up in a toast*

Truly, a great show of character for her, and she looks kind of sexy with that bloodied mouth.

 

[crouteru]

I didn't like this episode because it resorted to time travel and boring aliens so soon in the series. That kid was so annoying aswell.

 

[propita]

I didn't like this episode because it resorted to time travel and boring aliens so soon in the series. That kid was so annoying aswell.

He made me think of what Tom might've been as a kid.

Likely, though, Tom was a repressed never-good-enough Admiral's son, though.

 

[DanCPA]

Considering the fact that "Endgame" is one of those episodes I can't bear to re-watch I'm not sure how much worse it can get!

Did you see the series finale of Enterprise? Obviously, the series finales are getting progressively worse... This does not bode well for the next series. Plus, we really shouldn't dare Braga to make bad Trek. He was doing just fine on his own without the encouragement.

Admiral Hawthorne, I doubt that Chakotay, at that point in time, would have chosen Tuvok as his XO. I know, if I was Chakotay, I wouldn't have. Tuvok, while holding true to his 'fleet values, betrayed Chakotay and showed a certain lack of appreciation for his way of doing things. I doubt he would have chosen Paris either... Maybe Rollins? Certainly, he couldn't promote Harry, no one can!