Computer Platform Distain

[Shaw]

I have seen in this (and other) forums displays of outright hatred of certain computer platforms by users of other platforms. My question is... what is the source of this venomous distain for what other people seem happy using?

The reason I ask is that I've seen Windows and Linux users post in Mac threads, Mac and Windows users post in Linux threads, and I would assume that Mac and Linux users are posting in Windows threads (though I don't know for sure as I haven't any reason to read those threads). I just find it interesting that (above and beyond platform advocacy for the minority platforms... which is just a fact of life for them) there is a large amount of hatred for other platforms even if they play no active part in their daily life. And I'm wondering what would cause the users of one platform to wish the extinction of another that they don't use.

If your computer platform works for you, shouldn't that be enough?


A little about myself in this area... I currently use three different operating systems on a daily basis; Mac OS X 10.x, Rhapsody 5.x and Mac OS 8.6. Additionally I use two other operating systems on almost a weekly basis; OPENSTEP 4.2 and IRIX 6.2.

Some of these may be familiar to many of you while others you may never have heard of before. I'm pretty sure most people have heard of Mac OS X, which despite it's popularity is still very much a minority platform. Mac OS 8.6 was Apple's main operating system back in 1999. OPENSTEP 4.2 was the last release of NeXT's operating system that is the foundations of both the Mac and iPhone platforms today, and is still in use by a handful of enthusiasts. IRIX 6.2 was a mid 1990's release of Silicon Graphics UNIX operating system which was discontinued a few years back but is still pretty popular given the rarity of the hardware and software for these systems.

Which brings us to Rhapsody, which was the Apple operating system that bridged the gap between OPENSTEP and Mac OS X. Early versions of Rhapsody were available for both Mac and PC hardware (I have been running a version on an IBM ThinkPad since 2000). And other than sporadic collectors attempting to install this operating system to see what it was, I think it is safe to say that I am the last Rhapsody user on the planet. Yes, a platform who's entire user base is me (can't get to be much more of a minority than being alone).

The point is, these computer platforms all do what I need of them, and I really don't care if other people use them... and in the case of Rhapsody, I'd almost rather they didn't as I've also become the place to go for tech support for the platform looky-loos that pop up (and disappear nearly as fast) from time to time. And I sure don't need the extinction of other platforms to justify my choices, nor do I wish ill will on those who don't use the platforms I do (I'd have to hate everyone if that were the case as no one else uses Rhapsody).


So I have to wonder, do Linux users think that knocking Apple will help them? Or do Windows users really fear for their platforms existence these days to the point where the thought of people happily using another platform pushes them nearly into fits resembling tourettes?

I mean it is one thing to say why you like your platform, but time and again I see people disparage others because they didn't reach the same conclusion in platform choice.

One has to also wonder if this mind set extends to other aspects of these people's lives? Do these people wish for all other makes of car other than the one they might own be removed from the roads? Or do they wish for the extinction of types of food that they don't like? It just seems to me that it is a short step to go from computer platform bigotry to the type that entails real hatred for other groups of people (which, after all, is what these people are showing for users of other platforms).

Maybe some people see this as competition (as market share is often used as measure, but serves as little more than a popularity contest), but it seems to me that it is just a little silly to base your choice of tools on popularity unless you aren't quite sure of what you are going to do with these tools. Shouldn't what you are able to do with these tools be enough to justify your choice to yourself?




For the record (and full disclosure)... I used (and supported) Windows from about 1996 to 2002. That changed when Microsoft's lawyers descended on one of my clients with threats of a law suit in excess of $100,000 for software piracy. This client was a small magazine publisher that used all Macs and who's primary software came from Adobe and Quark. Out of 25 systems, only two had copies of Microsoft Office installed on them. When I tried to explain this to Microsoft's lawyers, they still insisted on a full audit of the company's computers (though they agreed to let me do the audit as a third party). Still, the week long audit was paid for by my client rather than Microsoft (who instigated all of this). After that I packed up (and removed from my systems) any and all Microsoft software and gave my Windows clients to some consulting friends of mine. So my dislike of Microsoft (which is separate from my opinion of their software offerings) is founded on a direct, up front and personal experience with them.

 

[Hermiod]

I prefer to use a Mac, but I have a Windows PC as well for games. I'm no zealot, I just find my Mac easier to use. I was not sold on hype, I was not deceived by some reality distortion field.

When Apple launched the Mac Mini, I was in the market for a small computer so I gave it a shot. I now have a MacBook Pro as well.

Computing is my profession, computers are a tool. My Mac is, for me, the best tool for what I want to do. I agree with you, people just can't seem to stand the idea that other people want to use a computer in a different way to them.

I admit, however, that the blatantly ridiculous article published in PC Pro (UK) a while ago depicting PC's as a smart, intelligent man in a suit and Macs as a jobless hippie did rile me as most of its fifty or so reasons why you should buy a PC were utter nonsense. Apparently Microsoft's domination of the PC operating systems and office software markets is a good thing and a reason why you should buy a PC.

 

[Arrqh]

Ultimately, when people feel emotionally attached to the platform or product they use, they feel the need to try and convince people that it is the "right" choice. This is not something unique to computers, you'll find this with game consoles, cars, tvs, sports teams, etc etc etc. That's really all it is. And the more personal a connection between the person and the thing they're using (and since we use computers so much these days, the link there is very personal) the more likely people will be willing to argue over it.

 

[Paxil]

The self-important superiority of Mac fans is almost entirely responsible for my distaste for Apple products. In every single thread posted anywhere here about a Windows or IE problem, they will pop in and state "switch to a Mac" as a supposedly helpful solution to the problem. You just don't see the same in reverse. Not like that.

 

[Garrovick]

The self-important superiority of Mac fans is almost entirely responsible for my distaste for Apple products. In every single thread posted anywhere here about a Windows or IE problem, they will pop in and state "switch to a Mac" as a supposedly helpful solution to the problem. You just don't see the same in reverse. Not like that.

Ain't that the truth.

Mostly just out of the blue like some sort of virus or malware attack.

 

[Garrovick]

Price is the only factor for me between Windows, Linux and Apple.

 

[roliver]

The self-important superiority of Mac fans is almost entirely responsible for my distaste for Apple products.

Same here.

I use Windows at home, and currently use Macs at work. Both can get a job done, but I can't stand the superior attitude of Mac fans. The Macs at work have as many issues as any Windows machines I've ever seen. I don't see them as being any easier, stabler or more secure than what I use at home.

 

[Shaw]

... You just don't see the same in reverse. Not like that.

So you are saying that we could find a Windows thread like this one about MacBooks (in which you posted more than any other person) where Mac users attempted to shout down anything good about Windows? I mean from that I got the impression that you found whining about things you know little about as being fun.

But it would be nice to see examples of the reverse (which are as bad or worse than your actions that I've seen to date). As I stated above, as I don't use Windows, I don't see any point in reading those topics when they pop up. I make the assumptions that it happens, but I'm sure that as one of the biggest offenders I've seen on this site you can point us to the actions of others that set you off on your path of Apple hatred (and your apparent compulsion to post in non-Windows threads).



What I find interesting about Windows users is that most will never face a situation in which (for reasons of employment or the like) they are forced to use a platform not of their choice to gain familiarity. Linux and Mac users are generally guaranteed to have had spent some amount of time using Windows.

 

[Paxil]

I gave my honest opinion to a question of whether or not a Mac book is "worth it", and was promptly jumped on by all of the Mac lovers as being the next Hitler, or something. That is a far cry from every thread ever posted here where somebody is having a problem with their IE browser or PC system being told to just "get a Mac". And you know it.

FYI, I use and know quite a lot about both Windows and Linux systems. Never had need for a Mac, and probably never will.

 

[Shaw]

So no examples then?

I gave my honest opinion to a question of whether or not a Mac book is "worth it", and was promptly jumped on by all of the Mac lovers as being the next Hitler, or something. That is a far cry from every thread ever posted here where somebody is having a problem with their IE browser or PC system being told to just "get a Mac".

See, that is what is odd... If I saw a thread on, oh, say Chevy trucks, basically asking if they were worth it, I wouldn't post as I have no experience with them so I couldn't make an informed opinion. Same with Windows as the last system I had any amount of real time working on was Windows NT 5.0 (2000 Professional), but I was still more comfortable working with both Windows NT 4.0 Workstation and Server as I had years of experience working with them. That would make me ill equipped to offer my opinion in a Windows thread these days.

But in a thread about MacBooks you seemed to believe that your lack of knowledge was an advantage... and that you therefore knew something about the worth of a product you knew absolutely nothing about.



Hmmm... that seems to put you into the same category as your comment on people whining about things they know little about, don't you think?

And you know it.

And you are basing this accusation on what? Other than the threads where you've posted as the angry Windows user, I don't seem to recall seeing your name much in the areas I frequent here, so I would guess that you know as much about me as I know about you... which is very little.

FYI, I use and know quite a lot about both Windows and Linux systems. Never had need for a Mac, and probably never will.

Which is fine.

I don't care if you ever touch a Mac in your life time (in fact, I'm happier knowing that you haven't), but how you treat others is the topic of this thread and you are one of the worst offenders I've personally seen.

So one has to wonder if hatred is a natural state for you. Tell us, can you help yourself? When you see a Mac thread, is there a compulsion within you to, you know, look. And in looking, does the fact that these people are happy using what you are not bring your blood to a boil?

I just don't see where people thinking their platform is superior is enough to piss people off... after all, don't you use your platform because you believe it superior? Who chooses to use what they know is inferior?

Just curious... after all, this is what this thread is about, and it seems you've volunteered to be the perfect example of platform distain.

 

[Paxil]

Just as you have nicely filled the role of the pompous Mac user here. Like I said, find a thread about Macs - one which doesn't solicit advice on the relative merits of Mac vs. PC - where a PC user has come in totally off topic and suggest the Mac user should switch to a PC. I don't think you can. Whereas in almost every single thread about a PC users problem, a Mac user will come in and "suggest" switching to a Mac. Its a fact jack. Lindley is one of the biggest offenders on this.

Further evidence of Mac bias and playing loose with the facts are that recent series of Mac commercials filled with outright lies, exaggerations, and outdated info. That didn't make them any friends in the PC world either.

 

[Shaw]

Just as you have nicely filled the role of the pompous Mac user here. Like I said, find a thread about Macs - one which doesn't solicit advice on the relative merits of Mac vs. PC - where a PC user has come in totally off topic and suggest the Mac user should switch to a PC. I don't think you can. Whereas in almost every single thread about a PC users problem, a Mac user will come in and "suggest" switching to a Mac. Its a fact jack.

Odd... I don't recall saying anything about the relative usability of Macs to anything else. So while your opinion of me as pompous or otherwise is debatable, I have yet to extol the merits of the Mac platform (as it is not the topic of this thread).

And you must have some of these threads in mind, so show us. I shouldn't have to keep asking, and your claims that "you know it" don't count. Even if I knew, wouldn't it help you make your point by providing examples for those who don't?

Further evidence of Mac bias and playing loose with the facts are that recent series of Mac commercials filled with outright lies, exaggerations, and outdated info. That didn't make them any friends in the PC world either.

Oh... so Mac users are Apple employees, and are therefore held accountable for the actions of Apple as a company. Does the same hold true for Windows users being held accountable for the actions of Microsoft?

So by that I guess you are responsible for when Microsoft used anticompetitive tactics to keep other operating systems from being preinstalled on new PCs, or for withholding and supplying bad API information to both Netscape and Apple to keep their browser and media players from working correctly on Windows, or when they attempted to pollute Java by introducing their Visual J++ software.

Yes, if we are to all be held to account for the evil deeds of the companies who make the products we use, you'll have inherited quite a lot of baggage.

Lindley is one of the biggest offenders on this.

Why are you attacking someone else who isn't even part of this thread or addressed you in it? Don't you see that as rather odd behavior?

 

[Shaw]

I gave my honest opinion to a question of whether or not a Mac book is "worth it", and was promptly jumped on by all of the Mac lovers as being the next Hitler, or something.

Not to labor on this subject too much, but could you point exactly where you got your "being the next Hitler, or something" impression from. Please supply a quote as I was trying to find this as support for your argument but I'm not seeing anything that resemble the persecution complex you are now displaying here.

Links or direct quotes would be helpful as if you were being persecuted it would also be something to discuss in this thread.

Thanks.

 

[farmkid]

The self-important superiority of Mac fans is almost entirely responsible for my distaste for Apple products.

Same here.

I use Windows at home, and currently use Macs at work. Both can get a job done, but I can't stand the superior attitude of Mac fans. The Macs at work have as many issues as any Windows machines I've ever seen. I don't see them as being any easier, stabler or more secure than what I use at home.

I completely agree. I have used a Mac some, but not much, so I can't really comment on their useablity from first-hand experience. I hear the non-specific "Macs are more stable" or "Macs are more secure" comments. But, when I hear of actual experience, they don't seem any more stable. They probably are more secure, but that is due largely to their small market share. The main thing I don't like is the superior smug attitude of people talking about their Macs. I think a lot of the attitude comes from Apple marketing department. They ooze smugness like a used car dealer selling BMWs.

 

[FordSVT]

I have no problem with OSX, I have a problem with the price of a new Mac vs. a PC and the Ron Paul-like obsession Mac fans seem to have. Many view them as some kind of fashion statement and all I need is a tool that completes many cycles per second and throws them up on a nice screen.

I find Windows easy to use after 20 years of practise and XP SP3 is stable as hell. I have not had many problems with Windows over the years that weren't directly attributable to something dumb I did. I fail to see how switching to a Mac will prevent me from doing stupid things.

But if something magic came along tomorrow that would run all Windows-compatible software with an easier to use interface I wouldn't be against giving it a whirl, I have no inherant loyalty to the company. Have no hatred for them either, which seems to put me in small company here on the net. Ironically, most of these haters have a "green" start button down in the left corner of their GUI and have a copy of MS Office on their computer (legal or not).

 

[Shaw]

I hear the non-specific "Macs are more stable" or "Macs are more secure" comments. But, when I hear of actual experience, they don't seem any more stable.

Ya know, that is a totally valid point. I mean what do people mean when they say more stable, as it is a relative term.

So rather than say more stable or even stable at all, why don't we look at some numbers and people can decide for themselves what is more or less stable.

I have six Macs running some version of Mac OS X and have not had a system crash (Kernel Panic) since November of 2004. All restarts have been due to upgrades, updates or power outages (which was 25 days ago). The two longest uptimes of all my systems are my PowerBook G3 (103 days) and my PowerBook 3400c (127 days... but I use it less than once a week). That is acceptable to me as my Sun SPARCstation running OPENSTEP and my SGI Indy running IRIX have pretty much equivalent performance records.

But a system staying up isn't all that there is to a stable environment, application performance is also important. Here is a list of applications that have crashed on this PowerBook since I originally got it:

• Mail (June 22, 2008)
• Finder (June 2, 2008)
• Curtaor (May 12, 2008)
• Firefox (March 9, 2008)
• Adobe Photoshop (November 9, 2006)
• Preview (October 25, 2006)
• Safari (September 28, 2006)
• Acrobat (September 26, 2006)

Note that OmniWeb, my default browser, doesn't create a crash log when it crashes, which it has done from time to time.

Is that more or less stable than a comparable system from some other company... I personally don't know as I really can only compare the systems I have on hand against each other.


Any Mac user curious about their application crash history, you can find those files in ~/Library/Logs/CrashReporter/.

 

[Lindley]

Lindley is one of the biggest offenders on this.

Really. I certainly enjoy my Mac, and having experienced all three major systems, find it the most suitable for my home system; Windows is too frustrating (it's not stability, not really----it's just the overall experience isn't that smooth), and Linux is too much effort when I'm not at work. They aren't perfect; honestly, I find Visual Studio superior to XCode once you do a bit of configuring to eliminate a few particularly egregious examples of Microsoft stupidity. (Making min and max macros? Seriously?)

I'll defend Macs when they're unfairly criticized, and I'll relate my experienced with them when asked.

However, I don't recall offhand spouting the "switch to Mac" line anywhere at all recently. Now, I don't remember every single post I've made, and it's possible I may have suggested considering the option to someone asking about new computer options. But if you're going to criticize me for that, I'm going to have to ask you to put up or shut up. Links.

Honestly, your attitude reminds me of what happened with the whole Firefly/Serenity thing. Some people like their systems (or shows) enough to suggest them to others. And some people just can't stand that, and call them names for doing so. I didn't understand it then, don't understand it now, but I think it says more about those doing the complaining than those doing the praising.

 

[Amaris]

Price is the only factor for me between Windows, Linux and Apple.

Amen.
I like the MacOS, but the price is just way too high for me.
Shoot, I just bought a Gateway GT5618E, with an AMD Athlon 64 X2 4400+, 2 GB of RAM, 320 GB Hard Drive, 18X SuperBurner (DVD, CD, DVD-DL, etc), and Windows Vista Home Premium (with SP1) for $289. Pleased as punch with it. I wish Mac could do the same.


J.

 

[Lindley]

I'm sure everyone would like it if top of the line machines were available for such prices, regardless of vendor. Unfortunately that isn't the case, and money isn't a sufficiently limiting factor for me when considering a device I'll use daily for at least 5 years to influence my decisions overmuch.

Still, anyone who's got tips on how to get a Mac system for less than retail prices, I'd be much obliged. I'll probably get a new laptop in the next 6 months sometime.

 

[rType]

It's the evangelical types that are the problem, whichever "side" they're on. For better or worse, most of them seem to be on Apple's side.

Personally I'm looking forward to the war that's shaping up between Intel and Nvidia, now that Intel has identified Nvidia as a clear threat to their dominance of the industry. Nvidia is pushing into Intel's territory with GPGPU/CUDA/Tesla, Intel is pushing into Nvidia's territory with their many-core Larrabee architecture, and they're already trading insults and having little tiffs over SLI (Nvidia) and CSI (Intel) licensing and USB 3.0. AMD, of course, are well poised to frustrate both by offering single-chip CPU/GPU solutions starting with their upcoming Shrike platform in 2009. It's going to be one hell of a show.