Could the Borg ever become a member of the Federation? Or peace?

[Newspaper Taxi]

This question popped up in my head. I know the first answer that's going to run through your mind is "No, it would never work." Is there any possible way that an alliance between the two organizational entities could co-exist? The Federation is supposed to be able to bend itself to accept all sorts of different civilizations into it's mixing bowl -- even if that means the culture has fight to the death rituals such as the Vulcan's and the Andorians.

Could it be argued that the Borg have a culture? Could assimilation actually be a custom of their species? It's a procedure that's unique to their species and defines them as Borg. Is dismissing assimilation as evil an unfair bias or judgment?

What if the Borg adhered to the rule of only assimilation species that agreed to be assimilated after a truce is negotiated? They could probably find logical reasons why assimilating willing species is practical -- no borg ships getting exploded, no drones dying, no damage to land that could be used for some sort of Borg building or drone storage.

It's also been noted in the past that the Federation and the Borg both do some assimilating of cultures. The Federations adds cultures to it's own collective and rejects cultures that aren't similar enough to itself or don't agree to it's rules. The Borg force their beliefs onto the other species through a physical means, but couldn't the Federation also be accused of forcing its' beliefs onto it's members? You don't get to join the club (The Federation) unless you meet all of the requirements. If you don't meet the requirements and refuse to make changes to meet those requirements you don't get to join the club and reap the benefits. Say your species' religion claims that your God demands that there should be one hundred different governments on the planet and the Federation demands you have a unified planetary government. Your species has crappy resources and is neighbors with more advanced bully species. You could benefit from that union if you just tweaked your beliefs a little bit...

But anyway, I thought it would be an interesting thought to play around with. What do you think?

 

[The Wormhole]

Logically speaking, no. But Borg stories stopped being logical awhile back, so yeah, I imagine it is possible.

 

[TheRealNaveed]

No, because the Bajorans were about to be not accepted into the Federation because of the return of their Dijaras (sp?), and cast systems were against the Federation charter. The Borg would certainly fit the cast-system description.

 

[Alidar Jarok]

The Borg's incapable of being reasoned with permanently. They couldn't be a member of the Federation without controlling their desire to expand, consume, and assimilate by force. If they could be tamed, maybe, but they can't be.

 

[Deks]

They could be reduced as an overall threat once a society has developed high enough technology to resist the Borg on a long term basis and maintain a status quo with the Borg.

 

[Hermiod]

No, because the Bajorans were about to be not accepted into the Federation because of the return of their Dijaras (sp?), and cast systems were against the Federation charter. The Borg would certainly fit the cast-system description.

The return to using D'jarra's only came about Akorem Laan briefly "took over" as the Emissary. They were quickly abandoned after that.

If it wasn't for Sisko warning them otherwise (and the effects of this are a thread of their own) they would have joined the Federation in "Rapture".

 

[ambelamba]

That just sounds plausible as Darth Vader and Palpatine travels to the different dimension and become the presidents of the Federation.

This question popped up in my head. I know the first answer that's going to run through your mind is "No, it would never work." Is there any possible way that an alliance between the two organizational entities could co-exist? The Federation is supposed to be able to bend itself to accept all sorts of different civilizations into it's mixing bowl -- even if that means the culture has fight to the death rituals such as the Vulcan's and the Andorians.

Could it be argued that the Borg have a culture? Could assimilation actually be a custom of their species? It's a procedure that's unique to their species and defines them as Borg. Is dismissing assimilation as evil an unfair bias or judgment?

What if the Borg adhered to the rule of only assimilation species that agreed to be assimilated after a truce is negotiated? They could probably find logical reasons why assimilating willing species is practical -- no borg ships getting exploded, no drones dying, no damage to land that could be used for some sort of Borg building or drone storage.

It's also been noted in the past that the Federation and the Borg both do some assimilating of cultures. The Federations adds cultures to it's own collective and rejects cultures that aren't similar enough to itself or don't agree to it's rules. The Borg force their beliefs onto the other species through a physical means, but couldn't the Federation also be accused of forcing its' beliefs onto it's members? You don't get to join the club (The Federation) unless you meet all of the requirements. If you don't meet the requirements and refuse to make changes to meet those requirements you don't get to join the club and reap the benefits. Say your species' religion claims that your God demands that there should be one hundred different governments on the planet and the Federation demands you have a unified planetary government. Your species has crappy resources and is neighbors with more advanced bully species. You could benefit from that union if you just tweaked your beliefs a little bit...

But anyway, I thought it would be an interesting thought to play around with. What do you think?

 

[Gotham Central]

No, the Borg as it currently exists is antithetical to Federation membership. The Federation admits specific races into the alliance. Even pre-existing alliances are absorbed and broken down into their constituient parts which are then absorbed into the Federation.

The Borg are not a race and thus could not join the Federation as is.

 

[grabmygoblin]

the main continuum, no. the smaller splinter groups, yes.

 

[Temis the Vorta]

The Borg do have a culture, and they aren't evil. However, their culture and behavior is incompatible with the Federation's cultural standards of individuality.

 

[TheRealNaveed]

Ah, yes. But my point still stands, a society that imposes a cast system is not legally allowed to join the Federation, making Borg membership an impossibility, even if it wasn't because of other considerations.

 

[Philo]

The Borg do have a culture, and they aren't evil. However, their culture and behavior is incompatible with the Federation's cultural standards of individuality.

Exactly, although I'd argue with you on the evil part.

I could imagine a truce or alliance forming between the Federation and The Borg as supposed by the OP but never actual membership. If the Borg became something that could be admitted by the Federation they'd no longer be Borg. The Borg are a culture, not a species.

 

[Mr. Laser Beam]

It's also been noted in the past that the Federation and the Borg both do some assimilating of cultures. The Federations adds cultures to it's own collective and rejects cultures that aren't similar enough to itself or don't agree to it's rules. The Borg force their beliefs onto the other species through a physical means, but couldn't the Federation also be accused of forcing its' beliefs onto it's members?

No, since no one is ever forced to be a member of the Federation. The Borg reject some species (such as the Kazon) but *force* all others into it. The Federation forces no one. They have the right, and indeed the obligation, to *explain* to worlds the benefits they can realize if they join, but the choice is up to those worlds.

You don't get to join the club (The Federation) unless you meet all of the requirements. If you don't meet the requirements and refuse to make changes to meet those requirements you don't get to join the club and reap the benefits.

The Federation *has* the right to reject members who don't adhere to its rules. All clubs do.

And even so, Federation membership is hardly a weight on the shoulders. Apart from some entirely reasonable restrictions - one world government, no caste discrimination - a member world is pretty much left to govern itself as it sees fit.

 

[Sector 7]

The assumption of the Borg as a species is flawed. Slavery is outlawed as immoral, the Borg enslave whole planets and species to serve the collective. Therefore, they oppose the individual freedom which defines the Federation.

 

[C.E. Evans]

For the Borg to join the Federation they would essentially have to stop being Borg. They would have to abandon their entire way of life--the assimilation of other life-forms and their technology.

If such a thing ever happened, they would pretty much all become like Seven of Nine in the sense that they would all be former Borg...

 

[Triskelion]

I believe that one of the posits of Trek is that as planetary civilizations advance, there seems to be a general trend towards unified governments and global cultures. When planets are stable and achieve warp, they are ready for first contact. If the planet is not unified, they won't be admitted to the Federation (ie, TNG's Kespritt); and if they are unified but decline membership, the Fed does not force membership upon it (TNG First Contact).

The Fed is not about homogenizing culture but adhering to principles of individual rights and diversity of cultures, equal under rational rule of law. The Borg however assimilate regardless of the desires of their targets.

No matter how many times the Borg are devastated/destroyed, they keep coming back as galactic powers, I suppose. Probably the best one could hope for would be stalemate, détente or cold war across a "neutral zone".

But please, the Fed is not about homogenization. It merely works with natural processes of civil unification. It is a fictional posit, one of the "rules of thumb" of the Trek universe, like FTL.

 

[Sci]

Could it be argued that the Borg have a culture?

No, because it's not at all clear that the Borg Collective intelligence actually possesses free will. From what we can see, it seems to behave according only to prior programming -- everything else they do is just an attempt to live up to that programming. As such, I don't see that the Borg should be regarded as something all that much legally separate from, say, a tornado or a hurricane.

Do hurricanes have cultures?

Could assimilation actually be a custom of their species? It's a procedure that's unique to their species and defines them as Borg. Is dismissing assimilation as evil an unfair bias or judgment?

No, because it is almost always done without the consent of those individuals being assimilated, thereby violating their rights to self-determination. Further, the Borg are not a species -- they consist of a variety of species that have been forcibly enslaved.

What if the Borg adhered to the rule of only assimilation species that agreed to be assimilated after a truce is negotiated? They could probably find logical reasons why assimilating willing species is practical -- no borg ships getting exploded, no drones dying, no damage to land that could be used for some sort of Borg building or drone storage.

Even if the Borg only engaged in consentual assimilation -- which it is not clear that they're even capable of doing, since, as I noted above, their behavior invariably orients itself around achieving preprogrammed objectives -- that would be the legal equivalent of a hurricane that only destroys areas humans have allowed it to. Even if that's the case, does that mean a hurricane can become a state?

It's also been noted in the past that the Federation and the Borg both do some assimilating of cultures. The Federations adds cultures to it's own collective and rejects cultures that aren't similar enough to itself or don't agree to it's rules.

And obtains the consent of those cultures who join it. Let's not forget that part.

The Borg force their beliefs onto the other species through a physical means, but couldn't the Federation also be accused of forcing its' beliefs onto it's members? You don't get to join the club (The Federation) unless you meet all of the requirements.

No, that's not the same thing as forcing its beliefs on anyone, because every culture has the option of not joining. That's like saying that I'm "forcing" all of my friends to not be Nazis if I refuse to be friends with a Nazi.

Say your species' religion claims that your God demands that there should be one hundred different governments on the planet and the Federation demands you have a unified planetary government. Your species has crappy resources and is neighbors with more advanced bully species. You could benefit from that union if you just tweaked your beliefs a little bit...

Or they could just ask the Federation for humanitarian aid and probably get it.

But anyway, I thought it would be an interesting thought to play around with. What do you think?

It's nonsense.

 

[pookha]

The Borg's incapable of being reasoned with permanently. They couldn't be a member of the Federation without controlling their desire to expand, consume, and assimilate by force. If they could be tamed, maybe, but they can't be.

i agree with this.
the borg either assimilate or they destroy.
there is no option to opt out and they would have to fundamentally change who they are to not try and assimlate.
plus the question of all the drones who were oringally people assimilated against their will.

we already know due to hugh and others that individuality can still be present within them.

will the borg allow those drones that were taken against their will to be contacted and worked with to see if the spark of individuality remains and what their wishes are.

especially considering many were federation citizens.
unless that was allowed to happen i dont see if because in many ways the drones can be seen as slaves.

and to equate the federation and borg is silly
the federation wont destroy your planet if you dont meet their standards.

heck they will still trade with you ect depending on the situation.

 

[Timewalker]

The Borg are not a race and thus could not join the Federation as is.

If the Borg were ever to gain the ability to procreate without using other species, they would be on the road to becoming their own species, and thus fulfill part of the requirement for Federation membership.

However, the Borg cannot exist without causing the death of another lifeform. Therefore, they would not ever be eligible to join the Federation (for that matter, neither could the Kobali, since they can only exist by other species' dying).

It's a shame, though... there is a nice bit in the novel Federation about a Message that activates once word reaches an alien race that ALL warp-capable species in the Milky Way Galaxy reach peace/join a Federation of sorts. This Message is an invitation to further exploration among other galaxies, and some technological help to do so.

 

[Sci]

The Borg are not a race and thus could not join the Federation as is.

If the Borg were ever to gain the ability to procreate without using other species, they would be on the road to becoming their own species, and thus fulfill part of the requirement for Federation membership.

However, the Borg cannot exist without causing the death of another lifeform. Therefore, they would not ever be eligible to join the Federation (for that matter, neither could the Kobali, since they can only exist by other species' dying).

It's a shame, though... there is a nice bit in the novel Federation about a Message that activates once word reaches an alien race that ALL warp-capable species in the Milky Way Galaxy reach peace/join a Federation of sorts. This Message is an invitation to further exploration among other galaxies, and some technological help to do so.

For the record, species do not join the Federation. The TNG episode "Attached" made it clear that planetary states join the Federation; being a Federation Member State is a matter of political association, not biology. Ergo, it's entirely possible for a community of Tellarites to emmigrate to Earth and live there as citizens of United Earth and of the Federation, or for a community of Humans to emmigrate to, say, Cardassia Prime and yield their Federation citizenship.