Water on mars! Go Phoenix!
- Thread starter Alpha_Geek
- Start date
From what I can make out...you're asking who will be on the first colony on Mars.
Astronauts, scientists, and the military of whatever nations build said colony.
Okay, thought exercise. Reverse it. Put yourself in the shoes of any potential life on Mars.
What if a race from another planet came to try to put a colony on Earth, (we didn't have a choice but to allow it), but they didn't take measures to protect life on the surface, and we all ended up dying as a result?
Yeah, it's kind of Independence Day meets Andromeda Strain, I admit, but seriously, think about it if the situation were reversed. Personally, we shouldn't be afraid to interact with all other life on another world, but we definitely should take steps to protect that life from ourselves, shouldn't we? Who knows what could eradicate an entire species on another planet?
But will they be wearing red jumpsuits and dark sunglasses?
I was more hoping for something like this.
http://chosis.coldfusionvideo.com/battle-beyond-the-stars_3.jpg
Or Ornella Muti. Now THAT's a uniform.
http://www.scifihottie.com/hotties/?c=63&n=Ornella_Muti
http://chosis.coldfusionvideo.com/battle-beyond-the-stars_3.jpg
Or Ornella Muti. Now THAT's a uniform.
http://www.scifihottie.com/hotties/?c=63&n=Ornella_Muti
TerriO, is that life on another planet different in an ethical sense?
Would you consider bugs and microbes on Mars somehow more morally considerable than bugs and microbes resident on earth?
I'm not taking sides on this one... just curious to see what people feel. Anyone join in
TerriO, is that life on another planet different in an ethical sense?
Would you consider bugs and microbes on Mars somehow more morally considerable than bugs and microbes resident on earth?
I'm not taking sides on this one... just curious to see what people feel. Anyone join in
Personally, life is life, no matter where it resides. I realize this is my belief on things and nobody will or must agree with me. I have a higher respect for life on this planet than most, I'm fully aware of that. IMO, life on another planet deserves the same respect and care we should take toward the other creatures that occupy this planet. Even moreso since we're basically invading their territory by setting up shop.
Again, that's my sense of things and the way I try to approach the world. I fully acknowledge that people don't share that view.
Well for me, life on another planet is no more or less morally considerable than that here on earth. Just because it crawls on a different rock doesn't make it special.
Now although I acknowledge a right for privacy, I don't respect the idea of territory. I see territory as a primitive tribal paranoid antisocial concept.
I do agree with you in the sense that I place a higher value on life than most people do. This is expressed through both in my vegetarianism, the fact that I don't kill bugs but carry them outside if they bother me, and also through my neo-pagan interpretation of the world I see all life as essentially equal.
Now although I acknowledge a right for privacy, I don't respect the idea of territory. I see territory as a primitive tribal paranoid antisocial concept.
I do agree with you in the sense that I place a higher value on life than most people do. This is expressed through both in my vegetarianism, the fact that I don't kill bugs but carry them outside if they bother me, and also through my neo-pagan interpretation of the world I see all life as essentially equal.
I think anyone out there with the ability to talk to us wouldn't want to. We'd be either too primitive or just too ordinary for anyone to give a shit about us. If there really are billions of habitable worlds out there, no one will notice us. Or, we're alone. Either way, aliens are unlikely to visit us.
As far as ethics of planetary imperialism goes...
Mars is a small, lifeless chunk of rock. No need to go all environmental on it.
I think we can safely send tiny robots to it as much as we please, even if there was life.
When our sun expands, Earth will be consumed. Mars will survive. So taking these first small steps are very important if we're going to be ready. We've got to start sometime.
We should respect life, but humans are not plants, and we have to kill life to survive, no matter what. Everyone is responsible for the death of plants and animals, even vegans. It's just a matter of how far seperated you are from the killing. Farmer Brown, the guy that grows our food, kills a lot of animals to keep them from eating our veggies. Damn bunnys.
Competition is part of nature, and so are we. We will, most likely have to compete with other life to survive, if there is other life out there.
As far as ethics of planetary imperialism goes...
Mars is a small, lifeless chunk of rock. No need to go all environmental on it.
I think we can safely send tiny robots to it as much as we please, even if there was life.
When our sun expands, Earth will be consumed. Mars will survive. So taking these first small steps are very important if we're going to be ready. We've got to start sometime.
We should respect life, but humans are not plants, and we have to kill life to survive, no matter what. Everyone is responsible for the death of plants and animals, even vegans. It's just a matter of how far seperated you are from the killing. Farmer Brown, the guy that grows our food, kills a lot of animals to keep them from eating our veggies. Damn bunnys.
Competition is part of nature, and so are we. We will, most likely have to compete with other life to survive, if there is other life out there.Everyone is responsible for the death of plants and animals, even vegans. It's just a matter of how far seperated you are from the killing. Farmer Brown, the guy that grows our food, kills a lot of animals to keep them from eating our veggies. Damn bunnys.
Perhaps it is, but I'm not going to stop eating because of Farmer Brown. Nor would I use the Farmer Brown story as an excuse to dismiss the ethics of food. My diet choice is probably more symbolic than it is protective, but to a degree I do choose where I source my food from. So really, what more can I do than what I do now?
You don't know that, and the whole premise of this discussion is about in the case that it is NOT.
Actually, the premise of this discussion is that the Phoenix Lander discovered hard evidence of water on mars. Look back up top there.. See? That's what that Alpha_Geek guy posted.
Stay on target, Porkins!
Stay on target, Porkins!
I think we should presume that it is lifeless unless we discover otherwise. However, I don't see that it matters too much either way.
What does Mars have to offer us for manned space exploration that the Moon does not? We haven't sent men to the Moon in decades, and it's 140 times closer to us than Mars.
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^What does Mars have that the moon doesn't? Potentially arable land, from the sound of these reports.
The discussion has evolved a little, I'm afraid, Alpha_Geek. It happens.
The discussion has evolved a little, I'm afraid, Alpha_Geek. It happens.
No, still cranking along. False alarm.
Just send up a rocket with a couple hundred varieties of seeds and microbes and scatter them - then stand back and watch to see what happens.
Throw in some spiders and a nuclear power core and you've got yourself a deal mister!
Hmm...what if they develop eight opposable thumbs?
Still a few details to think through before launching my master plan, I guess.
I can't get too excited about the prospects of turning Mars into a garden.
There are places far more suitable here on Earth that remain relatively untouched because of their harsh climates. Why should I think we'll do on Mars what we haven't done here?
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Say that in a few months when you see the price of corn.
Seriously, a colony would be even more self-sustaining if it's possible to grow food in Martian soil. That would be less that needs to be taken from Earth. Lower the amount you have to bring with you, increase the likelihood of colonization. We can't keep our eggs in the same basket forever. We need to seriously look toward moving beyond planet Earth. We're not going to get our fecal matter together here on Earth. It's just not going to happen without outside interference. We've been a fractured, contentious, tribal species for millenia. It wont happen overnight. It's going to take a catalyst to get our collective asses in gear, but the question is what will that catalyst be?
And if that catalyst comes tomorrow, we may just have an easier time of it knowing that there are nutrients in the soil on Mars.
For the same reason humanity has done so much in its exploratory history, because it's there, and it's a challenge. Why climb Mt. Everest? Why do people keep trying to go over Niagara Falls in barrels? We are a contentious, but adventurous, exploring species. We also know that if we don't start moving out into the universe, we're putting all our eggs in one basket. All it takes is one asteroid and we go the way of the dinosaurs.
There are people who live in those harsh climates (I'm thinking deepest Alaska or the Sahara Desert), but not enough to make them major population centers. What do we do, terraform Earth? If we learn how to handle sandstorms on Earth, that same technology may be applicable to dust storms on Mars.
We will have a colony on Mars eventually. It's just a matter of time.
Yes. Before we seriously talk about growing plants on Mars, let's turn the Sahara desert into farmland. That's got to be easier, more useful, and probably a lot less expensive.
I agree that we may... eventually. It's just that I think it will take a long, long time. Not to put too much of a damper on your enthusiasm, but there were people in the 1930's that thought we'd all be driving flying cars by 1960.
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Well for me, life on another planet is no more or less morally considerable than that here on earth. Just because it crawls on a different rock doesn't make it special.
Now although I acknowledge a right for privacy, I don't respect the idea of territory. I see territory as a primitive tribal paranoid antisocial concept.
I do agree with you in the sense that I place a higher value on life than most people do. This is expressed through both in my vegetarianism, the fact that I don't kill bugs but carry them outside if they bother me, and also through my neo-pagan interpretation of the world I see all life as essentially equal.
I think an important reason for being circumspect before we go contaminatingother worlds williy-nilly is the thought that while, yes, life may well exist on Mars (or elsewhere), it may be vrey different than what we have experienced here on Earth. What if there is life on Titan that utilizes methane instead of water? What if there are organisms on Mars which meet the criteria of being "life" yet which may utilize very different mechanisms for living?
Clearly, Earth is a very hospitable planet for life. It is obviously by far the most hospitable planet in our solar system. Life here is used to adapting. It is clearly resilient and capable of surviving under a tremendous variety of conditions. However, is (potential) life elsewhere as hardy and adaptable? Life-forms on Mars may be VERY fragile compared to those of Earth. By our understanding of life, Mars has an extraordinarly narrow window of survivability. Is there any possibility that earth-based organisms might simply be hardier and more resilient and better able to adapt and might supplant indigenous life, overwhelming it before we can even learn about it? What might be the consequences of wiping out, not just a species, but an entirely different TYPE of life?
