Poorly chosen B plots

[erastus25]

So, I just watched Shakaar last night and I was stunned by the decision to insert the "O'Brien's shoulder" B plot with the very serious, and series progressing Shakaar/Kira A plot. It just did not fit, didn't share a common theme and had no place in that episode. Surely the Kira/Shakaar plot could have been extended to last a full 45 minutes. Maybe have Sisko figure out some way to assist Kira without directly "interfering"? There was simply no point to include the O'Brien thing as it did absolutely nothing to develop any of the characters or progress the DS9 story arc.

The same could be said for Life Support with the excellent plot intertwining Bariel's death, Kira's grief, Bashir's ethical dillemma and Winn's bitchiness, and the annoying Rom/Jake B plot. The Rom/Jake one at least had some character development and a morality allegory, making it better than the Shakaar B plot, but it was still had no place in that episode.

Does this annoy anyone else, or am I getting too picky?

 

[Michael]

So, I just watched Shakaar last night and I was stunned by the decision to insert the "O'Brien's shoulder" B plot with the very serious, and series progressing Shakaar/Kira A plot. It just did not fit, didn't share a common theme and had no place in that episode.

Maybe they didn't want the story threads to share a common theme. I guess they were intended to be different in tone to bring some balance into the episode.

But to be honest, I don't really remember most of the B plots at all. When I read an episode title I tend to think of the main theme of the episode.

Does this annoy anyone else

No.

or am I getting too picky?

Yes.

 

[MeanJoePhaser]

The one where Bashir reunites with the validictorian of his class. Whatever.

 

[Navaros]

I never noticed that the A plot and B plot ever had anything to do with each other in DS9. Were they supposed to? Did that ever happen in DS9? If so, it still didn't happen more often that it did, right?

I always just figured that the A plot and the B plot are simply two entirely separate things, and that's that.

Which has it's strengths, for when B plots are the only redeeming quality about an otherwise totally worthless and unwatchable episode. Ie: Jeffrey Combs and the Holo Quark/Kira B plot in "Meridian".

 

[erastus25]

I never noticed that the A plot and B plot ever had anything to do with each other in DS9. Were they supposed to? Did that ever happen in DS9? If so, it still didn't happen more often that it did, right?

I think it's a nice touch when they have something to do with each other. It was less of an issue when DS9 became serialized (DS9's 2nd and 3rd seasons were the biggest offenders), but I just didn't see the point of the self-contained episodes having totally unique stories. This isn't supposed to be a sit-com. In general, if the B plot doesn't share a theme or somehow relate to the A plot the writers should add new elements and make the A plot the whole episode.

 

[Damask]

I hated the Playing God episode. Here we have a decent episode in which Jadzia is supervising a young Trill.

Then we get a microuniverse plot. Ugh.

 

[CDP]

The one where Bashir reunites with the validictorian of his class. Whatever.

I disagree - it gave us the hilarious scense of o'brien adn Bashir pissed, singing Jerusalem, and Bashir wanting to go to Quarks to sing it for everyone! LMAO

Best,

CDP

 

[Navaros]

I think it's a nice touch when they have something to do with each other. It was less of an issue when DS9 became serialized (DS9's 2nd and 3rd seasons were the biggest offenders), but I just didn't see the point of the self-contained episodes having totally unique stories. This isn't supposed to be a sit-com. In general, if the B plot doesn't share a theme or somehow relate to the A plot the writers should add new elements and make the A plot the whole episode.

Do you have some examples of where DS9's B plots do have anything to do with the A plot? Would you say that that happened more often than not in the later seasons? My perception is that even in the later seasons even after DS9 became more serialized, the B plots still rarely ever had anything to do with the A plots.

I agree though that a lot of DS9's episodes could have better if they didn't feel the need to shoehorn a B plot into them just for the sake of "sticking to the format", and instead spent all of that time on the A plot. That's one of the things I love about TOS, the TOS episodes feel epic because there is no B plot. I wonder why TPTB switched formats from TOS' epic "no B plot" formula.

 

[Ryan Thomas Riddle]

For me, all the Jack and Nog B-plots were always enjoyable especially in the first three years because they acted like teenagers not super genius kids who knew everything about everything.

 

[Damask]

For me, all the Jack and Nog B-plots were always enjoyable especially in the first three years because they acted like teenagers not super genius kids who knew everything about everything.

Nog's B-Story in Faith, Treachery and the Great River is the greatest B-story that ever was!

 

[DanCPA]

For me, all the Jack and Nog B-plots were always enjoyable especially in the first three years because they acted like teenagers not super genius kids who knew everything about everything.

Nog's B-Story in Faith, Treachery and the Great River is the greatest B-story that ever was!

It was a GREAT one!

I don't mind any of the B stories... To me, most of those stories added something to characters

 

[Ryan Thomas Riddle]

For me, all the Jack and Nog B-plots were always enjoyable especially in the first three years because they acted like teenagers not super genius kids who knew everything about everything.

Nog's B-Story in Faith, Treachery and the Great River is the greatest B-story that ever was!

Fo' sure.

 

[asp7485]

I enjoyed Nog's B-plot in "Heart of Stone" where he asks Sisko about getting into the academy. I'm always moved by Nog's explanation. Also, this story fits in with the title of the episode - "Kira" is being encased in stone, Odo's "heart" is made of stone, and Nog has a tough heart, almost like stone, in that he is so determined.

-Aaron

 

[cylkoth]

I agree though that a lot of DS9's episodes could have better if they didn't feel the need to shoehorn a B plot into them just for the sake of "sticking to the format", and instead spent all of that time on the A plot. That's one of the things I love about TOS, the TOS episodes feel epic because there is no B plot. I wonder why TPTB switched formats from TOS' epic "no B plot" formula.

It helped that TOS only had 3 main lead characters...whereas nu era Trek had 7-8 contract players, and many times, the B story felt as if it written solely to involve the actors that weren't focused on in the A story.

 

[erastus25]

I think it's a nice touch when they have something to do with each other. It was less of an issue when DS9 became serialized (DS9's 2nd and 3rd seasons were the biggest offenders), but I just didn't see the point of the self-contained episodes having totally unique stories. This isn't supposed to be a sit-com. In general, if the B plot doesn't share a theme or somehow relate to the A plot the writers should add new elements and make the A plot the whole episode.

Do you have some examples of where DS9's B plots do have anything to do with the A plot? Would you say that that happened more often than not in the later seasons? My perception is that even in the later seasons even after DS9 became more serialized, the B plots still rarely ever had anything to do with the A plots.

I agree though that a lot of DS9's episodes could have better if they didn't feel the need to shoehorn a B plot into them just for the sake of "sticking to the format", and instead spent all of that time on the A plot. That's one of the things I love about TOS, the TOS episodes feel epic because there is no B plot. I wonder why TPTB switched formats from TOS' epic "no B plot" formula.

Two responses here. 1. I think the B plot thing becomes a non-issue when a show is serialized because all of the plots are interconnected by the arcing story. My opinion is that if shows are not serialized, the plots should be connected by some kind of episodic theme or by the story.

2. TOS did have B plots, but they worked because they were related to the other story. See the DeSalle/Chekov B plot aboard the bridge in Catspaw or the Scotty in command B plots of Friday's Child, among other episodes. But, perhaps the best integration of a B plot comes from TNG's Arsenal of Freedom with Geordi and Troi in charge of the Enterprise, and Picard and Crusher in the cave. The entire ensemble had something to do, several characters had major developments and all the plots tied together to conclude the story. The DS9 writers could have learned from this formula.

 

[Terra Pryme]

It helped that TOS only had 3 main lead characters...whereas nu era Trek had 7-8 contract players, and many times, the B story felt as if it written solely to involve the actors that weren't focused on in the A story.

TOS certainly could have used more B-stories. Though the series had the big 3 with Kirk, Spock, and McCoy, they weren't the only crewmembers on the Enterprise. They should have been able to utilize Scotty, Uhura, Sulu and Chekov much more as they all had excellent performances in episodes like "Mirror, Mirror" and "The Tholian Web" (among the best of the group in which they all appeared). The few B-stories they had were pretty good, particularly the above-mentioned one in "Friday's Child", as well as other notables like "A Private Little War" (Spock's recovery from his gunshot wound, which better utilized Nurse Chapel and Dr. M'Benga), "The Gamesters of Triskelion" (good interaction between Spock, McCoy, and Scotty) and "That Which Survives" (intense Enterprise in danger B-story).

DS9 had some pretty decent B-stories, but there were a few clunkers among them. Those I particularly despised were those Kira vs. Quark B's in the episodes "Shadowplay" and "Meridian". Aside from the obvious fact Quark would never win, the plots were just so damn predictable. Thankfully, they stopped doing those after season 3.

 

[Temis the Vorta]

I never noticed that the A plot and B plot ever had anything to do with each other in DS9.

In "Rocks & Shoals," the A and B plots complemented each other thematically even though they weren't logically linked. But that was unusual. The usual thing was to have the "heavy plot" and the "light plot."

 

[jimbtnp2]

So, I just watched Shakaar last night and I was stunned by the decision to insert the "O'Brien's shoulder" B plot with the very serious, and series progressing Shakaar/Kira A plot. It just did not fit, didn't share a common theme and had no place in that episode. Surely the Kira/Shakaar plot could have been extended to last a full 45 minutes. Maybe have Sisko figure out some way to assist Kira without directly "interfering"? There was simply no point to include the O'Brien thing as it did absolutely nothing to develop any of the characters or progress the DS9 story arc.

The same could be said for Life Support with the excellent plot intertwining Bariel's death, Kira's grief, Bashir's ethical dillemma and Winn's bitchiness, and the annoying Rom/Jake B plot. The Rom/Jake one at least had some character development and a morality allegory, making it better than the Shakaar B plot, but it was still had no place in that episode.

Does this annoy anyone else, or am I getting too picky?

I general all B-plots are just poor writing filler
sub-plots can work but separate storylines are a joke

 

[Michael]

I general all B-plots are just poor writing filler
[...] separate storylines are a joke

I completely disagree.

 

[Kegek]

O'Brien and Keiko working through their relationship troubles in "Fascination", which turns out to have nothing to do with the episode's love bug plot. I thought that was the reverse, it deserved a better episode to be the B plot of.

As for "Shakaar", it was a good B-plot. It was lightweight and humourous, counterpointing the more serious A-plot. Even when somebody's off fighting a guerrilla war with her old commander it doesn't mean back pains and shoulder sprains disappear from the world.

Other than that, I can only remember the B plots I like. Like "Hippocratic Oath", where Worf puts his nose into DS9's security with disastorous results. B plots are rather useful (and a somewhat old literary tradition, Shakespeare among others used them) in both expanding a screenplay but also telling a story that couldn't fill a screenplay by itself. O'Brien having a winning streak is an amusing idea but it wouldn't support an episode, just a handful of scenes. So that's what it got.