Would "Voyager" have been better under an Equinox plotline?

[Danoz]

I've heard this mentioned. I'd prefer this poll extend to people who would consider themselves "fans" of or even "passing fans" of Voyager-- and not necessarily those who loathe Voyager (as we know your response). So, would an Equinox premise (not necessarily the crew) have been a better show?

 

[Guy Gardener]

Are you saying that it wouldn't have been ass if it wasn't ass? You're not asking the most pointed question here.

What exactly is an 'Equinox plotline" and how does it differ from a "Voyager plotline"?

 

[Danoz]

Are you saying that it wouldn't have been ass if it wasn't ass? You're not asking the most pointed question here.

What exactly is an 'Equinox plotline" and how does it differ from a "Voyager plotline"?

Have you ever seen the Equinox episodes? :P

 

[Guy Gardener]

Many times.

Voyager did exactly the same thing in the Cloud, except that Janeway tried to make up for using a lifeforms as fuel. They also did the same thing again in the next emanation when they were going to grave rob for fuel until they figured out it was underhanded.

Or do you mean play lose with the rules like in the void where she claimed to stay up all night re-reading the Starfleet Charter to justify piracy to her second and first officer who were jumping at the bit to beat down the smaller ships in the region to service their energy requirements...

Or do you mean that it should have been a smaller ship which got it's ass handed to it at every turn? Considering the previous series was about Picard's Enterprise, then comparatively that is exactly what Voyager was supposed to be.

I can go on for hours.

What's the detail from Equinox you think would have played well in Voyager?

 

[Danoz]

Many times.

Voyager did exactly the same thing in the Cloud, except that Janeway tried to make up for using a lifeforms as fuel. They also did the same thing again in the next emanation when they were going to grave rob for fuel until they figured out it was underhanded.

Or do you mean play lose with the rules like in the void where she claimed to stay up all night re-reading the Starfleet Charter to justify piracy to her second and first officer who were jumping at the bit to beat down the smaller ships in the region to service their energy requirements...

Or do you mean that it should have been a smaller ship which got it's ass handed to it at every turn? Considering the previous series was about Picard's Enterprise, then comparatively that is exactly what Voyager was supposed to be.

I can go on for hours.

What's the detail from Equinox you think would have played well in Voyager?

Thanks for the clarification. I would say your 3rd point. Smaller ship. Tougher situation. No holodeck. No floating Hilton in space. And the very serious ethical dilemma of either getting home or concerning oneself with the rights of a sentient being or getting home.

 

[smeos]

^^^^^^^^^

IF it were done well, then Voyager could have been a better series. Or a show about two guys in a shuttlepod on a freight run from Earth to Mars.

I've often advocated this, though. The fact that the ship was always clean and shiny, with all the lights on, really bugged me. Yes, I know that it was so that they could re-use FX shots, but it still got on my nerves.

No exploding shuttles, either. If you say that you have two, then use two. If you must use more, than include some dialog about how hard they are to replace. Hell, have no shuttles for all I care.

Some edge would have been nice. Some anger at their situation, some irrational anger at first, maybe even a suicide or two to show how distraught these people must have been at being a lifetime away from home with slim odds of ever getting there at all. I'm not saying that I would have wanted them to go around committing genocide, but some tougher choices and some battered consciences could have gone a long, long way towards making it a better show.

Internal damage should have been greater as well. I always thought that it would have been cool if some of the characters had been forced to share space due to a lack of habitable quarters, or if there was a whole deck that you just didn't go on because it was too badly damaged and opened to space, etc.

To make a big change, a few of the characters would have had to go or been significantly altered.

1. Neelix - the guy was supposedly from the rough and tumble Delta Quadrant, but he was more Starfleet than Starfleet. A "Jayne Cobb" type mercenary with a POV that was radically different from that of Janeway and co. would have worked better here, not to mention added some spice to the cast.

2. Harry Kim - Grow. I don't even care how. Just do it. Stop being a pussy by season 7 already. Either that or kill him off.

3. Kes - A species that only lives seven years? What's the point, she'd be dead by the end of the series anyway . . . if she had made it that long.

4. Chakotay - Should have been a little more "Maquis" and opposed Janeway a bit more throughout the show, especially in the beginning.

5. The Doctor - I liked Robert Picardo in the role, but we've seen the whole artificial lifeform studying humanity thing before. It's old. Should have just made him an organic life form to begin with. Everything else could have been left alone and I wouldn't have minded.

6. Seven of Nine - We already had Tuvok, who was the emotionless outsider looking in at humanity (along with the Doctor) the last thing we needed was a third one of these characters, and a second emotionless one, to boot. I watch Star Trek for drama and intelligent discourse (and some explosions every now and then) not ta-tas. Jeri Ryan wasn't a bad actor, but she just wasn't given much to do aside from the same old storyline over and over again. A character who held a great deal of animosity against the Borg, or was angry and bitter and looking for a fight as a result would have worked better, at least initially. The odd life lesson episode wouldn't have been that bad at all, but it was endless with her, and she dominated the entire show as soon as she came on board. You have eight or nine castmembers for a reason. Use them.

Whew. Man, I feel better.

 

[Immolatus]

6. Seven of Nine - We already had Tuvok, who was the emotionless outsider looking in at humanity (along with the Doctor) the last thing we needed was a third one of these characters, and a second emotionless one, to boot. I watch Star Trek for drama and intelligent discourse (and some explosions every now and then) not ta-tas. Jeri Ryan wasn't a bad actor, but she just wasn't given much to do aside from the same old storyline over and over again. A character who held a great deal of animosity against the Borg, or was angry and bitter and looking for a fight as a result would have worked better, at least initially. The odd life lesson episode wouldn't have been that bad at all, but it was endless with her, and she dominated the entire show as soon as she came on board. You have eight or nine castmembers for a reason. Use them.

I agree with your comments. they should have called it "Star Trek: Seven of Nine"

 

[kimc]

You have eight or nine castmembers for a reason. Use them.

Love it!

 

[PKTrekGirl]

Get a load of this, kimc and Akiraprise:

http://www.trekbbs.com/showthread.php?t=28591&page=3

I respond to this thread and end up bumping a 4-year old thread in DS9.

The poll question is this thread's poll question...but the rest of the responses before mine are related to a 4-year old DS9 poll that I saved back from pruning in 2004.

Boggles the mind, huh?

Perhaps I should warn myself for thread bumping, just for fun?

 

[kimc]

Get a load of this, kimc and Akiraprise:

http://www.trekbbs.com/showthread.php?t=28591&page=3

I respond to this thread and end up bumping a 4-year old thread in DS9.

The poll question is this thread's poll question...but the rest of the responses before mine are related to a 4-year old DS9 poll that I saved back from pruning in 2004.

Boggles the mind, huh?

Perhaps I should warn myself for thread bumping, just for fun?

I believe this is what we in the software industry refer to as a "feature".

 

[PKTrekGirl]

^ And that 'feature' would be "Screw with the head of the DS9 forum moderator for no particular reason"???

It's really odd that it ended up in DS9, of all places. I wonder, in all seriousness, if it has something to do with my being a mod in there. Because no one else in this thread ended up in DS9 after posting.....

 

[kimc]

^ And that 'feature' would be "Screw with the head of the DS9 forum moderator for no particular reason"???

It's really odd that it ended up in DS9, of all places. I wonder, in all seriousness, if it has something to do with my being a mod in there. Because no one else in this thread ended up in DS9 after posting.....

Just a little inter-show practical joking...

Seriously, I don't know what happened. Perhaps we should run it by Anthony.

 

[PKTrekGirl]

^ I have already bitched about it in the BR Batshit Crazy thread.

For a second there, I thought I was losing what little I had left in the way of sanity.

 

[kimc]

^ I have already bitched about it in the BR Batshit Crazy thread.

For a second there, I thought I was losing what little I had left in the way of sanity.

I've just come from there. The explanation given seems plausible.

As for your sanity, I can't vouch for anyone who has access to BR - myself included!

 

[smeos]

I fell into the same trap when I voted, too. I read through half of the first page wondering why the hell they were talking about DS9.

It was like being high, but not.

 

[Lynx]

No!

If you create a series, you have to make at least some of the main characters likeable. None of the "Equinox" characters were likeable.

If the scenario had been the same with Janeway and her crew acting and behaving in the same way as the "Equinox" crew, many viewers would have found it hard to identify or sympathize with them. Besides that, it would have been the opposite to what Star Trek stands for.

OK, we could have had some situations in which Janeway and the crew would have been faced with the possibility to behave like Ransom and his gang but I don't think that an "Equinox" scenario would have worked in the long run.

 

[Lynx]

Get a load of this, kimc and Akiraprise:

http://www.trekbbs.com/showthread.php?t=28591&page=3

I respond to this thread and end up bumping a 4-year old thread in DS9.

The poll question is this thread's poll question...but the rest of the responses before mine are related to a 4-year old DS9 poll that I saved back from pruning in 2004.

Boggles the mind, huh?

Perhaps I should warn myself for thread bumping, just for fun?

That happened to me too! (Oh, Eeky shows up again!)

I was going to reply to the question and found myself on the DS9 forum! It must be caused by some wormhole leading from the Delta Quadrant to DS9!

Fortunately I discovered what was going to happen before i finished my post so I re-wrote it and I think I ended up at the right place.

If it was some joke from someone responsible for the site, it was actually funny!

If it was some error, well things like that happen. Blame it on the wormhole.

 

[Guy Gardener]

No!

If you create a series, you have to make at least some of the main characters likable. None of the "Equinox" characters were likeable.

If the scenario had been the same with Janeway and her crew acting and behaving in the same way as the "Equinox" crew, many viewers would have found it hard to identify or sympathize with them. Besides that, it would have been the opposite to what Star Trek stands for.

OK, we could have had some situations in which Janeway and the crew would have been faced with the possibility to behave like Ransom and his gang but I don't think that an "Equinox" scenario would have worked in the long run.

The only likable person in the crew was Kes.

Janeway was a bitch (Go girl power, and if she was a man, we'd applaud her for such behaviour, but down and dirty we know exactly how she behaved and how she treated people.)

ChaKotay was a Stooge.

Tuvok was blank. Any thing in the realm of goodliness in him is imaginary from the view point of the discriminator. This is good for a Vulcan of course, but I have very human standards.

Tom was a child. Talk about the boy who would never grow up. Such abandonment can and never should be emulated by the young looking for a role model.

Kim was dim. Voyager was his short bus.

Neelix was saccharin but false. He admitted more than once that his behaviour was in tended to be infectious. Openly mind washing the crew with a put on personality. And lets not forget the lies.

Seven of Nine... Well, she's her mothers daughters. Pick a mother any mother.

The Doctor insults and denigrates and has no respect of empathy for any one which is hilarious but hardly what one needs from a care giver.

 

[kimc]

If it was some error, well things like that happen. Blame it on the wormhole.

Feature folks - we're talking feature here!

 

[smeos]

No!

If you create a series, you have to make at least some of the main characters likeable. None of the "Equinox" characters were likeable.

If the scenario had been the same with Janeway and her crew acting and behaving in the same way as the "Equinox" crew, many viewers would have found it hard to identify or sympathize with them. Besides that, it would have been the opposite to what Star Trek stands for.

OK, we could have had some situations in which Janeway and the crew would have been faced with the possibility to behave like Ransom and his gang but I don't think that an "Equinox" scenario would have worked in the long run.

I liked Ransom, who would have been right at home on DS9. One of my major problems with Equinox was how quickly Janeway shut the door in his face. You would think that someone who had been through everything that he had (with a better ship, more crew and a few lucky breaks) would have been a tad more sympathetic to him.

The question that Equinox presented (and which Voyager never for a moment came close to even asking, let alone answering) is what would you do with a gun to your head?

It's easy for you or me to sit here, in our nice warm houses, with food in our bellies and running water, and take the moral high ground and condemn him for what he did . . . but if the situations were reversed, would we be any different?

Star Trek has pretty much established that humanity is only as evolved as it's technology. Take that away from them, to loosely quote Quark, and they will become savage again. For me, Equinox provided a tempting glimpse into that other world, the path that Voyager could have taken if only one or two things had gone differently. If that had happened, and the roles were reversed, would it be Ransom condemning Janeway for some terrible thing that she had done?

We'll never know, and it's a shame that none of these characters were ever seen again. For me, however, Equinox was fascinating in the moral gray area that it seemed to inhabit, before Janeway got all holier-than-thou and ruined it.