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THE SPECTACULAR SPIDER-MAN: A fitting name!

What throws me off in this series, Gwen, and romantic considerations aside, was miffed at Pete but let it go, and sees the point of him taking pictures and making a living. Eddie won't let it go, and while HE needs to make a living, won't give Pete the same credit.

Dr Conners was playing with something he didn't fully understand and couldn't control, and it ruined Max's life. Not learning his lesson, he played with something he didn't understand and couldn't control, and endangered his family, friends, countless strangers on the subway, and an aligator at the zoo. Eddie has no problem forgiving Conners. But somehow Pete is to blame for hurting Conners, except Pete kept that quiet and nothing happened to Conners?

Eddie loses his job, why? Because Pete didn't call the cops? If Pete had called the cops, how would things have been different? They wouldn't, they couldn't possibly have been. But it's Pete's fault, because deep down, for some reason, Eddie wants it to be.

Eddie's motives and feelings toward Pete have no logic to them at all. And it sticks out like a sore thumb, when all the other characters, even simpletons like O'Hearn, have a logical structure to their motives.

So if the series is as well written and thought out as I want to believe, there's a missing piece to this puzzle of Eddie Brock. Maybe some kind of blame for their parents death that he's bottled up inside.
 
He was mad that Peter totally ditched the effort to save Connors, lied over why he left and then took pictures of Spidey fighting the Lizard.

Then he got over that but was mad that Peter "lied" to Gwen over how he wasn't going to the dance, and when Eddie took Gwen out of sympathy they were both there to witness Peter coming in with a gorgeous girl, which left Gwen hurt that Peter lied over this so he could go with a hotter chick. Again, it's not just what he did but how he lied about it and hurt Gwen in the process.

Then Brock gets PO'ed that Peter went to the Lab even though Brock told him not to, and then took pictures of BC stealing the symbiote and didn't call the Cops so the Bugle could have the most exclusive pics and Peter would get paid more.

Of course, the two big things (Lizard and the theft) would've happened anyways even if Peter did what Brock thinks he should have done (people took pictures of the Lizard, and Peter calling the Cops wouldn't have stopped the theft in time).

Also, if he got all of Peter's memories from the suit though he'll know all of Peter's dishonorable stuff was actually honorable stuff. If not for him Connors would never have been cured, it wasn't Peter's idea to go with MJ but May's, and Peter did his best to stop the theft and told "Connors" to get the cops so he could chase BC.

So my guess is that the symbiote didn't tell him everything. If you pay attention to the montage at the end the suit seems to replay all the bad things Peter did and nothing else.
 
I realize that freak accidents are part of the genre, but Conners had minimal or no safeguards in place, the accident that happened to Max would have left Conners liable in any real life situation. Not to mention that the Conners really had no idea what the modified eels and sludge were capable of, obviously they transformed Max, you have high school students Pete and Liz stirring up the tank with no supervision.

Conners himself accepted responsibility, that wasn't just him being a nice guy, he really was responsible.

As far as Pete and Gwen and the dance, sorry, but Pete actually didn't think he was going to the dance until the last minute. He didn't lie, and had every right to change his mind. If anyone hasn't done something similar to this a dozen or more times in their lives, it's only because we're geeks who never get away from our computers. If Eddie is using this incident to be mad at Pete, then yes he is crazy.

No one is under any obligation to be a perfect human being, and sorry, having a hate on for Pete because he didn't think to ask Gwen out is ridiculous. Pete did nothing illegal to Conners, while Conners did stuff he should have been thrown in jail for. Pete protecting Conners went far above and beyond anything any normal person would do, and arguably was unethical in itself. With our great power to call the cops, we have a responsibility to protect society from idiots who turn themselves into murderous lizards.
 
He's definitely not using the Gwen thing as a basis for his hate. He's just a little annoyed because he cares for Gwen as an overprotective brother and doesn't like seeing her hurt, so Peter's obliviousness to her feelings (and they are apparent enough Peter should suspect something by now) just irritates him a little.

And as for the Cops thing, that was also Eddie's problem with Peter. He admits he was over the Lizard thing (that was more a matter of personal trust to Eddie than it was an ethical thing), now he's mad that Peter didn't do the basic right thing which was to call the cops to the lab (which probably still wouldn't have stopped the theft but at least Peter wouldn't have come off as totally out for himself), which led to Eddie's termination and the possible end of his stay at ESU. Of course, if Eddie had just calmed down for a moment he'd just go out a look for another job while conserving what money he has left.
 
Even more to the point, at episode's end, the symbiote is back and alive; his job is now safe again. So him opening and releasing it is contigent on his hate for Peter/Spider-Man being strong enough, and I just don't find either to be remotely believable as that compelling.
 
I think I can understand Eddie's behavior. According to what he told MJ last week, he and Peter both lost their parents in the same accident. I would imagine that Eddie really felt connected to Peter as a result, seeing him as a partner in grief, an anchor to hold onto. Maybe Eddie didn't have the benefit of loving relatives to take him in and support him the way Ben and May did with Peter. So he may have been more emotionally dependent on the idea of him and Peter as "brothers." So thus when it appears that Peter has let him down, he feels very betrayed and hurt, and responds to it in a way that seems like an overreaction.

Although maybe next week's episode will offer a different explanation. But that's an interpretation that makes sense to me.
 
Yeah, I got that feeling too when they started talking about it. I do wish they'd brought it up earlier so we'd understand more but I'm guessing they're going for more reveals to justify Brock's behavior concurrent with his villainy instead of laying it all out before he became Venom.
 
He's definitely not using the Gwen thing as a basis for his hate. He's just a little annoyed because he cares for Gwen as an overprotective brother and doesn't like seeing her hurt, so Peter's obliviousness to her feelings (and they are apparent enough Peter should suspect something by now) just irritates him a little.

And as for the Cops thing, that was also Eddie's problem with Peter. He admits he was over the Lizard thing (that was more a matter of personal trust to Eddie than it was an ethical thing), now he's mad that Peter didn't do the basic right thing which was to call the cops to the lab (which probably still wouldn't have stopped the theft but at least Peter wouldn't have come off as totally out for himself), which led to Eddie's termination and the possible end of his stay at ESU. Of course, if Eddie had just calmed down for a moment he'd just go out a look for another job while conserving what money he has left.
OK, maybe I wasn't quite clear about my cops comparison.

In 'Natural Selection', no one calls the cops on Conners/lizard. They decide to keep it to themselves, even though many people are endangered by the Lizard, one woman almost had her head bitten off, and there was hundreds of thousands of dollars of damage to public and private property. Conners is 100% responsible for that, he could have killed a dozen people seconds after leaving the lab, but no one, especially Eddie, calls the cops.

So in 'Persona' it is really the same situation, Pete doesn't call the cops, because Spidey is there taking care of it. Whatever Jameson put as the headline, pictures are clear that the Cat was trying to steal the ooze, Spidey was stopping her, and Eddie knows Spidey enough to realize this. Pete isn't behaving any differently than Eddie did in 'Natural Selection', since it's obvious that Eddie wasn't trying to protect the public, he was trying to save his job.

In a sense Pete is chonicly irresponsible, never notifying the authorities when Spidey gets involved, even a jewelry store heist. This is whole 'vigilante' thing, and Jonah often has a point. I'm not saying Pete is beyond criticism, but the whole premise requires him to feel personally responsible whenever bad things happen, because of his famous guilt trip, and he acts to deal with it by himself.

The difference with Eddie, who is behaving the same way outwardly, is that he isn't avoiding calling the authorities because he has the power to deal with it personally, he is avoiding calling them to keep things hushed up so he stays employed, at least from what we've seen this week.
 
The first season comes to a close with "Nature vs. Nurture," written by Kevin Hopps and directed by Victor Cook, the series' producer and supervising director. We start off with a callback to the first episode of the series, with Spidey triumphantly back in the red and blue as he effortlessly takes down a gang of thieves in a rooftop action sequence reminiscent of the one from the start of episode one, only bigger. Paradoxically, even though Spidey's back in classic form, he wages the whole battle in silence -- maybe because he just needs to absorb it for a while. This is Spidey's notice to Tombstone that the deal Black Spidey made with him is off -- but that's all right, since Venom comes in after Spidey leaves and applies for the job opening -- so long as he gets to kill Spider-Man.

Anyway, Peter makes amends with the gang at school -- and has the class to thank Flash Thompson for setting him straight -- and Gwen makes her first tentative move, offering to help him with Thanksgiving dinner while Aunt May is recuperating. But MJ warns Peter about Eddie's hostility toward him, a warning he fails to take seriously enough -- as we find when Venom attacks him in his own home. Pete recognizes the symbiote, but not who it's bonded with, not yet. Of course, Venom wants to toy with him, so he traps Spidey in webbing and taunts him about going after the ones he loves.

Spidey intercepts Venom just outside May's hospital window while May is inside, unaware of the battle raging nearby. Here, Venom calls Spidey "bro," revealing his identity. Spidey fails to get through to Eddie but succeeds in protecting May, but Venom just says he'll go after the one Peter wants the most (or loves the most; hard to tell through the voice distortion). Pete jumps to the conclusion that this is MJ, but when he finds her at what's apparently supposed to be the Macy's Thanksgiving Day parade (where the student body is wrangling a big balloon of the school mascot), the only muscleman going after her is Flash, whose clumsy makeout moves fail to pin her down. Too late, Spidey discovers that Eddie's real target was Gwen -- who soon ends up cocooned in black webbing and dangling from a parade float, with the webbing slowly fraying (man, the webbing is so fragile in this show compared to the comics).

Of course, Spidey battles Venom atop the balloons, but the real hero props here go to Flash and the gang. When Flash (a bit belatedly) recognizes that Gwen is in danger, he goes into quarterback mode and rallies his team to spring to the rescue, catching Gwen in a deflating balloon hand while Spidey's being kept busy. I always love it in superhero stories where ordinary folks get to be heroic too.

Spidey's ultimate solution to defeating Venom is very clever, although I think it comes from the comics -- he offers to surrender himself to the symbiote. Turns out Eddie is just Rebound Guy, and symbie drops him like a hot potato when Peter offers to take it back. But that's a trick; Pete's psychological defenses (in the form of his mental images of his friends and family, the people he's genuinely bonded with) prevent the symbiote from finding a foothold in his mind. Symbie leaves him for Eddie again (what a fickle blob of goo), but Spidey intercepts and contains the weakened alien, and in surprisingly gangsterish fashion, buries it in concrete being poured at a construction site. (For now....)

We also get some insight into what drives Eddie. Essentially, he's a very bitter and lonely character. After the deaths of their parents, Peter had Ben and May, but Eddie had nobody, and can't stand being alone. That's why he took it so hard when it seemed his "bro" Peter had betrayed him, and why he so eagerly bonds with the symbiote. Even though he was just sloppy seconds to the alien, he still pleads with it not to leave him alone. Talk about your co-dependency issues. I like it that they've taken a more psychological approach to the Venom story. It's a much more effective use of the character than just having him run around talking about eating people's spleens... and then doing it.

Back at home, May's Dr. Bromwell (a character from the Lee-era comics, though he's been made African-American here) is keeping her company, and there are hints of a romance there. Gwen and George Stacy bring Thanksgiving dinner, and afterward, Gwen makes her move, kissing Peter and leaving him virtually speechless. Ironically, the Gwen-Peter romance begins here the way it ended in the comics: courtesy of a supervillain dangling her from a height.

The one element that didn't work too well here was the revisit of the thread from the Lizard episode about the "gene cleanser" formula Pete had saved in case he ever wanted to give up being Spidey. We see him contemplating that here and eventually deciding for good that he's content being a superhero, pouring the formula down the drain. But it never really connected well with the overall story; it felt tacked on to tie up a loose end. I'm hoping it's just the setup for something worthwhile next season -- like maybe when the cleanser foamed up in the sink, he breathed in enough to cause him to begin losing his powers or something. If not, it'll just be a rare misstep in this show's storytelling.

As for the next season, it seems promising that CW4Kids will keep the show around. It's been steadily building in the ratings all season, and was the top-rated broadcast network show last Saturday, according to Comics2Film (although it doesn't specify whether that means for its time slot or for the whole day). CW4Kids is keeping it on the schedule in reruns through the summer, and will be rebroadcasting the whole season in order, two episodes a week. So I'd say the odds are good that it will be back in the fall.

Looking back on the season, if I have one real complaint about this show, it's that it does a really poor job capturing the look and feel of New York City. I've kind of gotten used to the cartoony and slightly weird character design style, but the scenery design just doesn't do it for me. It just comes off as a generic city, not specifically New York. The landmarks we occasionally see, like the Chrysler Building and Times Square, just don't look like they should. And there's generally too little activity in the streets, a lack of vehicle or pedestrian traffic, not to mention a lack of the noisy audio ambience of the city. That's something I'd like to see improved in the future, though I doubt the show will change its trademark look that much.
 
Wow...I decided to sleep in an extra couple of hours instead of catching the episode and everytime I've made that choice I've regretted it after reading your reviews Christorpher which are fantastic. I've said it before and I'll say it again that this series combines the best parts of what make Spider-Man so great and relatable and I will be so buying this series when it comes out on DVD, hopefully later this summer or fall, it will be a nice recovery present to myself. I am looking forward to seeing the first season in its entirety so I can give a proper opinion on the series which is suffice it to say...Spectacular!
 
^^Well, as I said, CW4Kids will be rerunning the whole season over the next seven weekends, every Saturday at 9:30 and 10:00 AM Eastern. So if you were willing to get up early enough, you could catch it all before the DVDs come out.
 
I still think they rushed Eddie's arc. I mean that one line about Eddie not having anyone didn't click for me. I know Diskin had mentioned Brock has mental/emotional problems but I like my shows to now have to rely on background stuff not mentioned in the show proper.

And for his complaints about dropping out of ESU and having no job and blaming Peter for it all really were the complaints of a spoiled brat: I mean it's not like he even tried looking for more work, or we saw him run out of money. And it's not like Peter calling the cops at the symbiote theft would have prevented it.

And we didn't have any evidence of him being mentally messed with by the symbiote. Quite the opposite, it seemed like he was in total control.

Peter didn't really come off as a friend either, seeing how he treated Brock like a villain of the week instead of his oldest friend. In Ultimate where they weren't as close he felt horrible for a lot longer over what happened to Brock, yet here he doesn't really care at all even when he finds out who Venom is.

Nice to see Gwen does have courage. MJ must be proud, I don't think she'd have expected Gwen to go straight for the lips that fast!

Anywho, with the exception of the Symbiote arc this series has been...well, Spectacular.
 
Good episode overall, with great showing by the supporting cast, but, unfortunately, this Eddie Brock is the weakest version of the character I've seen; the original comics put the cart before the horse in introducing him, but the core concept is great; this one just collapses under the weight of his own non-sensical characterization.
 
I thought they did a decent job with this. I've never liked Venom though so I'm really biased against him but I suppose they're obligated to use him with the popularity of the character.. The psychological angle, even if shoehorned in, made this more palatable. Actually I don't know crap about comics Eddie so making it more about Peter made it work for me I think. And you can't help but enjoy a knowing wink with Gwen dangling from the float.
 
I like the attempt to take a more psychological approach and make Eddie a friend gone bad, but I'll agree they didn't have room to go into as much depth justifying his character arc as they needed to. Normally this show is amazingly good at fitting a lot of storytelling into a small package, but something had to give, and this was it.

Maybe another part of the problem is that the show is going for a Lee-Ditko sensibility and Venom/Brock is a product of a later, darker era. Maybe that's why they didn't handle Venom as well as they handle the classic villains.
 
I don't think it's an issue of tone; they did all the Peter/symbiote stuff really well.

The problem with Eddie is that they tried to make him a sympathetic character, then switched gears four-fifths of the way through with no setup whatsoever. It's a matter of there being absolutely no relation between the character from the first ten episodes and the character in the last three.
 
I don't think it's an issue of tone; they did all the Peter/symbiote stuff really well.

But the storyline of the symbiote turning Peter dark and malevolent was from the '90s animated series, not the comics. In the comics, it just took him out for joyrides in his sleep and drained his life force. So that's not really a case for comparison to the tone of the comics of the period.
 
You know one of the things that amazes me about this show? It proves what Batman: The Animated Series first showed us, that animation seems to be able to do even characterization and plotting better than live-action films.

If Spider-Man 3 had contained one small measure of the depth of Spectacular's Symbiote arc, we'd all be hailing it as a tremendous success.

SSM is already better than the live-action trilogy much as B:TAS was better than the live-action Batman series (and in some ways still is)

\S/
 
SM3's problem was that so much unnecessary stuff was forced into a movie where they were needed: Gwen, Brock and the entire symbiote story were all forced into the movie AFTER shooting already began.

SSM's strength is that they can afford to have thug villains like Sandman and Rhino and leave them as thugs, unlike live-action where the main villains have to have more depth of character.
 
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