While you guys were having fun reading more into my post than was stated, my remark was about both this thread and the forum in general... this thread ruined my expectations of two novels I was looking forward to reading in the future (even though they are at the bottom of my unread pile). When everyone agrees a book or books is/are poor at best, that puts a damper on my expectations or even willingness to try it, knowing that it will be a horrible experience of a book. The forum itself usually spoils an unread novel because something seemingly innocuous often slips through, but gives away more than meant when coupled with other things like the first chapter or the back of the book, or whatnot.
Opinions on some novels
- Thread starter Vastator
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Because I stupidly* hoped for a better rating. Or even one good rating.
*Note that I did chastise myself in my own post for this poor judgement already.
This is the first I've heard of expectation-based spoilers. I can understand not wanting your experience of reading the book spoiled, but your expectations? Hell, I try to limit my expectations of Star Trek novels. I've had books that were very good feel like disappointments because I expected them to be insanely great; I've had books I expected to be awful turn out to be surprisingly enjoyable. Expectations are no substitute for reading the book and having your own reactions and opinions.
You don't know what everyone thinks, you know what a few people who bothered to post in one thread on one BBS think. You don't know it will be a horrible experience. There are people who loved Spirit Walk, inexplicable though that seems to me. KW Jeter's book Warped gets kicked around regularly here, too, and I liked that book, and I wouldn't want people to avoid it just because they've been told to by people I disagree with. For that reason, I can say I disliked Spirit Walk but it's not up to me to tell you not to read it. I don't know that you wouldn't like it.
Even if you knew that people here had generally similar tastes to your own, you still can't assume that you'll like everything they like, and you'll dislike everything they dislike. There are people here who like a lot of the stuff I like who also like stuff I can't stand. It's all subjective.
The other thing to keep in mind is that people are often more vocal about the things they hate than about the things they love. For everyone like me who thinks that Spirit Walk should have been shelved and Voyager handed off to other writers years ago, there are people who don't get what the fuss is about and think it was just fine. They just don't see the need to go online and bloviate about it.
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And you still haven't. I said my expectations were ruined (and that the forum itself has inadvertantly spoiled some books).
I do know that not one single person here said the books were okay. when everyone agrees in a Trek based thread, that's saying something. Loud and clear.
I'm aware of that. I spent a goodly portion of my life in a situation, where the only time you had to worry was when people stopped bitching. So I'm aware of that angle as well.
The point of my post was dual in that I was discouraged by the fact that not a single person even rated those books okay along with the my realization that I was beating my head against the wall coming to this particular forum before I'd read all of the books on my table. The overall point being that it was my fault for expecting a non-landslide in the ratio of pros and cons for this thread, and for gleaning spoilers out of inadvertant and very minor slips of the tongue (so to speak) in the forum (generically).
VOY-R is still on my read list for this year. I've heard all the negativity but it's not going to stop me from reading it and deciding for myself. I'm quite excited to check it out actually. The "A Time to.." series I'm reading right now has some negativity toward the earlier books in the series. But I'm glad I read them because I liked it anyways.
We're talking about Spirit Walk, right? I liked it fine.
And Steve's right -- even if everyone who bothers to post in this thread were in agreement, it wouldn't prove anything, because that's not a statistically representative sample. It isn't a random sampling, since it only consists of those who felt motivated to comment. And as Steve said, any such sampling is going to be biased in favor of those with negative opinions. Also, it's a tiny sampling. No more than a dozen people out of tens of thousands of readers. That's not a landslide, it's a small trickle of pebbles. It doesn't say anything loud and clear.
It's kind of funny because I just finished it a few days ago, and it ties into the "expectations" issue that has come up in this thread. I had the impression that people in general disliked this book, so my expectations for it were pretty low. But it turns out I thought it wasn't bad at all. I think I understand why people didn't like it, and I can't say that I loved it or anything, but maybe because my expectations were so low it turned out to be a pretty good read. It's very different from typical Trek books in many ways, and I can't say I really loved any of the characters, but the story was worthwhile. If your interest in reading it has to do primarily with the Cardassian "mystery", though, you might not enjoy it that much. It was a comparatively minor aspect of this longish book. But it does delve into their origins a bit.
I don't remember all of what I didn't like about Well of Souls, but a major part is Garrett's troubles with her ex. I realize that captains are people, too, but it's not the road I wanted them to take for only the third Enterprise-C story (after "Yesterday's Enterprise" and Vulcan's Heart). What Bick did with Garrett is almost the inverse of what DRGIII did with Harriman. Instead of elevating a character who didn't come off that well onscreen, she took a noble character and added a bunch of flaws.
Well of Souls is also hurt by its place in the progression of the series. The Sundered started things off well, and it was followed by the one-two punch of the phenomenal Serpents Among the Ruins and The Art of the Impossible. Those are tough acts to follow, and Well of Souls did not measure up. The whole expectations issue did come into play, but my opinion is that good books will still be seen as good, even if they do fall below expectations.
Well of Souls is also hurt by its place in the progression of the series. The Sundered started things off well, and it was followed by the one-two punch of the phenomenal Serpents Among the Ruins and The Art of the Impossible. Those are tough acts to follow, and Well of Souls did not measure up. The whole expectations issue did come into play, but my opinion is that good books will still be seen as good, even if they do fall below expectations.
Then you didn't read my post. I liked the Spirit Walk books. And what I said in my post was that they aren't as good as a lot of other Trek books of the past few years they are still good books. I said something to the effect of being the worst of the best is still high praise. Meaning they may not be "ZOMG, WOW" but they are "hmm, pretty good."
^ Sorry. 
It must be the Storm avatar. (Bloody avatar transvestites, making my grammatical life complicated...)
Fictitiously yours, Trent Roman
It must be the Storm avatar. (Bloody avatar transvestites, making my grammatical life complicated...)Fictitiously yours, Trent Roman
My opinion of Well of Souls is, despite the fact that it was a very tough read (It took me two months. Wheras, I read Unity twice in two days), when I was done, I was very glad that I made the effort.
The VOY-R is a mixed bag for me.
The VOY-R is a mixed bag for me.
I absolutely hated some of the plots The holo-strike was simply bizzare. I didn't like the Borg virus, not because of any-overuse pf the Borg, but because I didn't like the new Borg Queen in the slightest. In fact ,when a Borg virus was canonically mentioned in Dark Frontier, I thought that it would make a great book! I did like the Changeling plot and B'Elannna's plot.
In fact, B'Elanna's plot is one that I am really looking forward to seeing continue.
I hated Astall, the new counselor. (Here's a pop-quiz: who would you rather be counseled by-- Astall, who is overly emotional and annoying, or TNG's T'Lana, who is unemotional and a bitch? Suicide is looking beter and better...) And didn't care for Libby either (a canon character, I realize. But the whole "secret agent" thing is an invention of the books).
I like the new doctor despite, as some have pointed out, an origin remarkably similar to Ezri's. I didn't dislike Chakotay's arc in Spirit Walk as much as some did, but felt that the part with Wesley was out-of-the-blue and un-necessary.
In fact, B'Elanna's plot is one that I am really looking forward to seeing continue.
I hated Astall, the new counselor. (Here's a pop-quiz: who would you rather be counseled by-- Astall, who is overly emotional and annoying, or TNG's T'Lana, who is unemotional and a bitch? Suicide is looking beter and better...) And didn't care for Libby either (a canon character, I realize. But the whole "secret agent" thing is an invention of the books).
I like the new doctor despite, as some have pointed out, an origin remarkably similar to Ezri's. I didn't dislike Chakotay's arc in Spirit Walk as much as some did, but felt that the part with Wesley was out-of-the-blue and un-necessary.
You 'reach.' ('Herberts' can't)
You 'reach!' That's EXACTLY the entire underlying reason for my initial post! Methinks you picked up on that before even reading my further explanations where I hold only myself responsible for this. Although, many replies seemed to only read a portion of the post and/or think about it, I still hold only myself responsible. I did it to myself, and do apologize for the inconvenience to all for having to actually read the entirety of my posts to understand what I was really saying.
Obviously all who are here are at least readers, but as I proved, not all of us are writers (it is readily apparent I am not a writer!). So obviously, my original post and my further explanations didn't make it clear enough for all the semi-professional readers here to understand that I SAID IT'S MY FAULT. NO ONE ELSE'S. I DID IT TO MYSELF.
My original post was supposed to also indicate that I never seem to learn. BUT YOU ALL HAVE MADE SURE I UNDERSTAND NOW.
Thank you all for this lesson about bookreaders and their skills. Goodnight and goodbye!
^ The funny thing is, I actually didn't understand parts of that post. Who is Herbert and what's with all the 'reaching'?
Fictitiously yours, Trent Roman
Fictitiously yours, Trent Roman
Herbert is from The Way to Eden (or so I'm assuming)
"Mr. Spock... what does 'Herbert' mean?"
"It is somewhat... uncomplimentary, captain. Herbert was a minor official -- notorious for his rigid and limited patterns of thought." - Kirk and Spock on the hippies' epithet
As for reaching...it's from the same episode.
"Mr. Spock... what does 'Herbert' mean?"
"It is somewhat... uncomplimentary, captain. Herbert was a minor official -- notorious for his rigid and limited patterns of thought." - Kirk and Spock on the hippies' epithet
As for reaching...it's from the same episode.
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