Amen to all of that.
First Look At Alien From New Trek Film - Serious
- Thread starter Admiral Buzzkill
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How can you call yourself a Trek fan and not know M'Ress???
She was only, like, one of the hottest females ever portrayed on Star Trek.
M'row...
Well, it's been quite a while since I watched any TAS...and to be honest, when I watch that show I tend to focus more on the animated versions of the original TOS characters than on the cartoon add-ons. And forget about remembering any of their names.
Man...it's been years since I watched a TAS episode. I can barely remember any of them, in fact!
So...are you into this furry thing too? Jeez...now you have me worried! I mean, you I even know off-board!
Something about the way she purrs... 
Something about the way she purrs...
STOP THAT!!!
You're too cute to be creepin' me out like this!
3D Master
Rear Admiral
I would. It's got two legs, and two arms with hands and opposable thumbs left and right from a torso, I call it AT LEAST vaguely humanoid, if not full on humanoid.
In your defense, PK', it's quite easy to miss spotting M'Ress from the animated series. The character appeared in only 6 of the 22 episodes and most of her scenes were little more than "walk-ons" (though she was never animated as walking). Most of her scenes could have employed Uhura just as effectively. Only in "The Practical Joker" was her presence (or that of any "relief shift" crew) required. That was because Uhura, along with Sulu and McCoy were trapped within that "proto-holo-deck". Even in "Mudd's Passion", her "love potion" induced "interest" in Scotty could have been written for Uhura. (But considering this was 1973, the production probably thought the "as aired" pairing was less controversial, as strange as that may seem.)
As far as Akira's joking comment about M'Ress' purring, if anything, I found it rather disconcerting. Not the idea, but rather the execution. Again, ol' Rodd' found a way to "shoe-horn" Majel into one of his shows. She voiced M'Ress, along with about half of the female guest characters. Majel seemed to go for an Eartha Kitt as Catwoman motif (and fell embarrassingly short to my ears). It sounded, well, not even "over the top", just strained and "forced". If going for Eartha Kitt, they may as well have contracted Ms. Kitt herself. (I know, budget, availability and all that, but you get my point, I hope.)
I've read accounts (some right here at this site) that Filmation originally only wanted Shatner, Nimoy, De' and Doohan and not bother with Nichols, Takei and Koenig (for the sake of budget). Supposedly, Nimoy stated if they weren't included he'd not participate. As we know, George and Nichelle were hired. I now wonder if M'Ress was originally intended as an Uhura replacement just as Arex filled the gap left by the absence of Chekov. On a side note, if that theory is correct, I wonder with whom or what would they have replaced Sulu, some lagoon dwelling "gillman"?
Sincerely,
Bill
Or maybe a Suluban?
Which would make sense, really, given that both TAS and Enterprise are not canon.
I'm on the fence with the red uniforms, there's something odd about them. And just to be nitpicky, the boots on the women look too loose.
3D Master - without any observable evidence either way, the discussion leaves the realm of the scientific entirely. Until we have met other extraterrestrial species and catalogued their starships, and their physiology, we can not say one way or the other which is the better form for building such vehicles, at least not with any scientific certainty..
I am firmly in the exobiologists camp here. I believe Sagan said it best -
"The idea that extraterrestrial beings subject to perhaps four billion years of independent evolution would look approximately like us is a chauvinism. It says that there is something remarkably nice about human beings. And there is. But our design is not the only one possible for performing the tasks we do. "
..
“That's the part of science fiction that's so impoverished. They take a human being and warp him slightly and you get laughable caricatures of human beings. The range of possibilities is so much greater.” - Carl Sagan, the father of the modern science of exobiology on Hollywood's tendency to represent alien beings as humanoids.
And if you believe those quotes somehow support your position, well, I give up really. Let's just agree to disagree (strongly) - I'm sure you are a nice enough person, but I completely disagree with your take on this issue, interesting though it may be.
I am firmly in the exobiologists camp here. I believe Sagan said it best -
"The idea that extraterrestrial beings subject to perhaps four billion years of independent evolution would look approximately like us is a chauvinism. It says that there is something remarkably nice about human beings. And there is. But our design is not the only one possible for performing the tasks we do. "
..
“That's the part of science fiction that's so impoverished. They take a human being and warp him slightly and you get laughable caricatures of human beings. The range of possibilities is so much greater.” - Carl Sagan, the father of the modern science of exobiology on Hollywood's tendency to represent alien beings as humanoids.
And if you believe those quotes somehow support your position, well, I give up really. Let's just agree to disagree (strongly) - I'm sure you are a nice enough person, but I completely disagree with your take on this issue, interesting though it may be.
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I suppose that is where we disagree. I would not call something the size and shape of a garbage can that happens to have 4 appendages and stands erect an "humanoid".
Kangoroos stand upright and have a torso, 4 limbs and a head, but they are not "vaguely humanoid" -- not even if it had opposable thumbs. However, you may say otherwise, and that's fine.
I guess it's the "alien forehead of the week" that was so common in TNG that is the real question here...I just think that in reality there is very little chance that an alien will look even as similar to humans as TNG Klingons did. I think that a "real alien" would be so different from us that they would think Lt. Worf and Capt. Picard come from the same species.
But as I said in an earlier post, I forgive Star Trek of that scientific transgression because I'm more interested in the story they are telling, not how the aliens look.
I remember a stage-play version (and an early-1980s TV version of that play) of "The Elephant Man" story in which the actor portraying John Merrick (who was "The Elephant Man") didn't wear any special effect prostetic devices to make the actor look more like the actual John Merrick. To tell you the truth, I didn't care that the actor looked completely normal -- once you got into the story the actor's protrayal became believable. While watching this play you actually believed the character WAS disfigured, even though the actor looked normal.
...by the way...David Bowie and Mark Hamill were among the actors who portrayed Merrick in versions of that stage play -- as well as Philip Anglim who played him onstage and in the TV version. Philip Anglim also portrayed Vedic Bareil in DS9. Bruce Davidson (who guest starred in ENT and VOY, as well as nuBSG and portrayed Senator Kelly in The X-Men 1 & 2) also played Merrick in a version of this play.
Now, I'm not saying that the aliens in STXI should look completely normal, but I don't think Abrams needs to waste his resources on making the aliens look "totally alien" either.
I guess I'm saying two seemingly different things here -- I think that there is little chance that "real" extraterrestial intelligent beings look like us, but I'm also saying that It doesn't bother me that Star Trek portrays them as looking like us.
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Imagine you are a SPFX makeup artist working on ST for the very first time. You are told you must not invent any new aliens. You can only do replicas of aliens created by Fred Phillips in the 1960s or for TMP in 1979, or you can revamp some of the Dale Brady et al puppets used in ST IV.
What kind of challenge is that?
Majel Barrett was already agreed to be supplying all female voices, including Uhura, until Nimoy managed to get Takei and Nichols (ie "all regular cast from Season One of TOS", which was the additional reasoning that eliminated Koenig from consideration) into the gig. Arex wasn't just a Chekov "replacement". From the outset, Roddenberry and DC Fontana were keen to include aliens in TAS that could not have been done in live action with 60s or early 70s SPFX makeup.
I wonder how many TOS or ENT aliens they'll have in this film.
We may even see some TNG ones.
We may even see some TNG ones.
3D Master
Rear Admiral
At the risk of sounding offending; but don't some midgets look a lot like carbage-cans with 4 appendages and standing erect? Obviously you'll never get a carbage can with legs, by the sheer fact you wouldn't get a perfect straight-line cone shape with sudden organic, and thus non-straight, legs attached to it, so if you eliminate that, the closest thing to it...
If they were intelligent, then indeed I would call them vaguely humanoid. The key to humanoid, and indeed intelligent, sentient species that can build things, is the standing erect with 2 free hands.
The story isn't the reason why I don't mind - the fact that a human has to play the part of the alien however, does. After all, we don't have an actual alien to play the part around here, and until recently a completely CGI alien character was impossible, and for TV still is. Only a theatrical movie has the budget to pull that one off.
Indeed not, spending dollar after dollar on CGIing all the aliens is indeed a waste of time, resources, and effort. But that doesn't mean the make-up apartment shouldn't put in any effort at all either.
Um, Species 8472?
Yep, and a sehlat, too.
3D Master
Rear Admiral
That would be recently.
Besides, Species 8472 was a monster that didn't talk. Remember what they when they needed to talk? And there was never more than one on screen.
An actual full on talking, reacting CGI alien, and then not 1 but multiple of them, different ones, in a scene - not possible, it can barely be pulled off on the big screen, and only at severe sacrifices.
All even more recently that 8472, and still only monsters and no more than 1 on screen.
Yes, because you stipulated, "... and for TV still is". So I gave you a recent one.
You didn't mention anything about talking before. In any case, both the Xindi insectoids and aquatics of ENT talked - albeit with subtitles, because of their alienness - and I believe both of those alien races were CGI, and appeared in groups onscreen.
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