Christopher Lloyd's Kruge

[RobertScorpio]

We watched the trilogy this weekend, Khan-Search for Spock-Voyage Home, and I don't know..it may only be me. But I wasn't really impressed with Lloyd's performance as Kruge when I first saw it all those years ago, and I am still not impressed.

Nothing against the actor. I thought he was great in Taxi, and Back to the Future movies too. But his "Klingon" voice just doesn't capture the scope of the character, and he doesn't really bring anything to the role. Maybe its the writing to some degree. But Martok and other later Klingons seem far better to me, where as Kruge is just...eh....run of the mill.

Am I being to anal on this one??? What are your views about Kruge 24 some years later..

Rob
Scorpio

 

[cardinal biggles]

I doubt Kruge was ever high up in the list of "formidable Trek villains," but I tend to cut him some slack. Lloyd's performance is fun, if not spectacular, and the character is what you'd expect from the TOS-era Klingons. It wasn't until around TNG's second or third season that we started to see the Klingons become more fleshed-out both as individual characters (Worf, Gowron, and Martok especially), and as a species.

So it's a bit unfair to look down on TSFS (or any of the TOS Klingon appearances) because we've got the benefit of it being 20-odd years later and having seen TNG and DS9.

 

[zenophite]

Actually given the scant material, Kruge and company iare actually among my favorite depictions of the Klingons - this was long before they became a race of retarded cartoon vikings.

 

[Geoff]

What cardinal biggles said.

In fact, I think Lloyd deserves a lot of credit for the evolution of the Klingons within the franchise. He brought a certain bombastic flair that was missing from the TOS Klingons, but is quite prominent in TNG and the latter films.

 

[doublegood]

After Khan, any enemy had to have been and should have been somewhat petty and weak in comparison. Kruge stuck me as the kind of guy who wouldn't have stood a chance against Kirk if the Enterprise had been fully crewed and operational. I don't think he was meant to be a worthy adversary--just someone who got lucky (and then not so lucky).

But Lloyd did well, I thought.

 

[darkshadow0001]

I agree with the voice issue. Lloyd's voice may not be "Klingonese", but he played a great Klingon in the movie. Same with Christopher Plummer in Trek VI, while not the usual humdrum the way some Klingons spoke (TOS era), Plummer nevertheless played a great Klingon for VI.

 

[zenophite]

^Kruge did indeed introduce us to a Klingon race that seems somehow slightly different than what we got later in TNG and beyond. This was also exemplified by ST VI where we see aliens with actual personalities and depth. TNG started to make them interesting but IMO got so bogged down in silly rituals and other pointless minutiae not to mention yielding to the single-themed-alien motif that permeates all of trek that it took the "teeth" out of the Klingons.
I wish we had more in the spirit of Kruge, Chang, Gorkon and Azetbur and less of Worf, Duras, Hagar and all the rest of the grumpy Vikings

 

[rocketscientist]

What cardinal biggles said.

In fact, I think Lloyd deserves a lot of credit for the evolution of the Klingons within the franchise. He brought a certain bombastic flair that was missing from the TOS Klingons, but is quite prominent in TNG and the latter films.

Good point! I also agree with the other posters wrt the development of the Klingons. Lloyd's performance, with Nimoy's input as director, was the second stepping-stone to the Klingons seen in TNG on. I thought his Kruge was a damn good villain. Personally, I'd put Khan, Chang, and the Borg Queen ahead of him, but Kruge was definitely better than those last two losers Ru'afo and Shinzon. I also think his performance was great and in keeping with the Klingons, serving as a bridge between the Klingons of ST and the Klingons of TNG, actually. If anything, Lloyd's Kruge was one of the direct antecedents to Worf (although I personally think Michael Asnara's Kang was the one Michael Dorn emulated. Anyone know which Klingon portrayals he used? I'd say it was Kang and Kruge myself).


Kruge was a total bast*rd. He was a stupid, savage brute who killed Kirk's son and, through his actions, led to Kirk scuttling his beloved Enterprise (the original). He caused just as much damage as Khan in his own way and, again through his stupid brutality, almost caused a war between the Federation and the Klingon empire. I'd put him near the top of ST villains.

 

[rocketscientist]

^Kruge did indeed introduce us to a Klingon race that seems somehow slightly different than what we got later in TNG and beyond. This was also exemplified by ST VI where we see aliens with actual personalities and depth. TNG started to make them interesting but IMO got so bogged down in silly rituals and other pointless minutiae not to mention yielding to the single-themed-alien motif that permeates all of trek that it took the "teeth" out of the Klingons.
I wish we had more in the spirit of Kruge, Chang, Gorkon and Azetbur and less of Worf, Duras, Hagar and all the rest of the grumpy Vikings

I think I agree with you. I generally liked the way they began developing the Klingon culture, with Worf as its representative, on TNG. As it went on though, it got kind of tiresome for me. It's like every single one of them was a warrior, and if you weren't, you weren't anything in their culture. By Voyager, I was kind of getting sick of them, they all seemed the same.

Yeah, in ST VI it felt more like the Klingons were a little more differentiated. That probably is mostly due to an entirely different creative team (not Berman, Pillar, and Moore) going in a slightly different direction with them, basically taking up where Nimoy left them in ST IV. I thought that was kind of cool. The warrior angle wasn't as blatant. They didn't hit you on the head with it, the way they always seemed to do in Berman-Trek. I liked that.

 

[Chris3123]

We watched the trilogy this weekend, Khan-Search for Spock-Voyage Home, and I don't know..it may only be me. But I wasn't really impressed with Lloyd's performance as Kruge when I first saw it all those years ago, and I am still not impressed.

So I take it that you... have had... enough... of him?

 

[RobertScorpio]

We watched the trilogy this weekend, Khan-Search for Spock-Voyage Home, and I don't know..it may only be me. But I wasn't really impressed with Lloyd's performance as Kruge when I first saw it all those years ago, and I am still not impressed.

So I take it that you... have had... enough... of him?

I didn't get that at first...but then I did after reading it a few times. GOOD ONE!!!

I actually loved Rev. Jim on TAXI, he was my favorite character. I just didn't find him "klingonly" enough...But, heck, what do I know? I still think TFF is better than Nemesis AND Insearchofanerection, I mean, Insurrection, combined...

Oh, I love your Daffy Jordan avatar!!!...our new bowling team starts the next league this week..we are calling our team, get this, JUSTICE LEAGUE...I will be wearing a GREEN LANTERN shirt, my friend will be wearing a SUPERMAN "s" shirt, my other friend a Captain America shirt (marvel, I know) and my wife a Wonder Woman shirt...are we nerds or what??? But its all in good fun, and I am at the age now where I don't care what they think...

Rob
Scorpio

 

[Peach Wookiee]

Count me as a person who liked Kruge. Again, a guy who got lucky, but interesting.

 

[sbk1234]

I always liked Kruge. I thought Lloyd's distinctive voice added a bit of flair to the character. Looking at a character created over 20 years ago, I try to put myself in the mindframe of back then. With canon Trek limited to 79 episodes and three movies, Kruge was a powerful villain. Again, back then, the only recurring villains were Khan and Harry Mudd. So every villain wasa basically a one-timer, with no real character development. Much of what we think about these characters - even Khan - comes from either the novels, or what we have put into them ourselves, through discussion, fan fiction, or just our own imaginations.

 

[Peach Wookiee]

That's an interesting perspective.

 

[CaptainStoner]

I like his voice as Kruge. Truly the archetypal TOS Klingon bastard. And refreshing that he's not an evil genius, although he is after the super-weapon. He's just a hardcore evil Klingon bastard who will kill your son, and then ask you if you want your Vulcan bitch to die too.
But I love the Worf developments too. If the Klingons were always portayed like in TSFS, they'd be a hell of lot less interesting.

 

[Krieg1981]

I thought Christopher Lloyd's performance was fantastic! It's all about delivery, and Kruge is surely the most malevolent and calculating Klingon yet. Just my opinion, though!

"Who I am is not important! That I have them, is!"

 

[RoJoHen]

Kruge was just a random Klingon in a random situation. Frankly, it wouldn't surprise me if he had stolen his ship. Something about him didn't have me believing he was actually a part of the Klingon command structure. More like a fugitive taking advantage of a potentially lucrative situation. Would be kind of funny considering how Kirk stole the Enterprise in the same movie.

 

[Kirby]

I was a big fan of Taxi and I just kept hearing Reverand Jim Ignatowski: "Admiral Kirk, if you won't give me the Genesis devise, well.... okey doke!"

 

[RobertScorpio]

I was a big fan of Taxi and I just kept hearing Reverand Jim Ignatowski: "Admiral Kirk, if you won't give me the Genesis devise, well.... okey doke!"

Yep..i totally agree. I think his best 80s role, at the movies, was BACK TO THE FUTURE..I didn't really care for him ROGER RABBIT...

Rob
Scorpio

 

[shatastrophic]

I thought Christopher Lloyd's performance was fantastic! It's all about delivery, and Kruge is surely the most malevolent and calculating Klingon yet. Just my opinion, though!

"Who I am is not important! That I have them, is!"

I agree! Along with the above mentioned line from the movie I also like,

"Why haven't they finished us, the out-gun us 6 to 1. We must have dealt them a more serious blow than I thought."
"How do you know?"
"I trust my instincts."

He was a great bad guy, and from his perspective he was right.