Supernatural 3x16 "No Rest For the Wicked" Season finale SPOILERS

[Dorian Thompson]

It was fun, wasn't it? Yeah, if the strike hadn't cut things short it could have been really wild. That would have been choice. I can't wait for next season myself. The usual suspects are already screaming, though, because some site says that Dean might not get out of hell in the first five minutes of the episode. Some fans are so whiny. God forbid there isn't a quick, easy fix.

 

[KeepOnTrekking]

I say Sam and Bobby should track down that Colt and go pay Lilith a visit. She releases Dean or she bites the bullet!!

 

[Dorian Thompson]

Unfortunately, Bela gave the colt to Lilith. That's why she stole it.

 

[Skywalker]

However, they still have Ruby's knife...

 

[Dorian Thompson]

True. That they do. However, Lilith may be hiding now that she realizes Sam's immune to her white light of doom. They're gonna have to hunt the little bitch down.

 

[MilleniumLance]

I have a feeling that by the end of the series Sam is going to be very NEO like...

 

[theenglish]

It was fun, wasn't it? Yeah, if the strike hadn't cut things short it could have been really wild. That would have been choice. I can't wait for next season myself. The usual suspects are already screaming, though, because some site says that Dean might not get out of hell in the first five minutes of the episode. Some fans are so whiny. God forbid there isn't a quick, easy fix.

Actually, the strike has made me wish that more shows had 13 or 16 episode seasons on a regular basis. Last year, there seemed to be a lot of filler episodes (and not just in Supernatural) and I would like to see the shorter seasons (as Lost was doing before the strike) to become the standard.

 

[Dorian Thompson]

You have a point. All the dramas on premium cable are 13 episodes or so, and they're terrific. Oh how I wish Supernatural were a cable show. Can you imagine if there weren't broadcast standards limiting them? Yowza...

 

[Temis the Vorta]

Now we just have to get Temis hooked. Break her Smallville spell.

Smallville?!? Can't stand it! And if Lex is gone for good, I can't stand it even more!

Reaper is the only show on the CW I've ever been willing to watch consistently.

 

[Dorian Thompson]

If you can't stand Smallville, that only proves you have taste. It was a cute show once upon a time way back when, but these characters are getting too long in the tooth to be pre-Superman college age kids.

Oh, if anyone's interested, there's a link on the supernatural.tv site about Warner being interested in purchasing NBC Universal. What that means for the future of CW, heaven only knows.

rumors resurface

 

[mswood]

If you can't stand Smallville, that only proves you have taste. It was a cute show once upon a time way back when, but these characters are getting too long in the tooth to be pre-Superman college age kids.

Oh, if anyone's interested, there's a link on the supernatural.tv site about Warner being interested in purchasing NBC Universal. What that means for the future of CW, heaven only knows.

rumors resurface

Well you think it would be a win-win for Supernatural. IF not true, no harm to foul. If true, then several possibilities. One they might up to push CBS out of the CW, and thus try their own hand at the CW (a plus for SN since Warner is it's producer and is fond of the show's overseas performance). Or they might bail on the CW (since they would have a network), which could cause SN to be axed from the CW (with lack of pressure from Warners to keep it). Sounds bad. But while they most likely wouldn't want to have it on NBC, it would open up a floodgate of possible cable outlets that would most likely get pushed to take the show (so Warner gets its syndication package). From any TW owned cable stations, to the ones NBC Universal owns like USA or Scifi. And frankly I think SN would do far better on USA or Scifi then on the CW. Both cable companies are pretty good about promoting their shows and certainly would fit with Scifi.

 

[DS9Continuing]

Typing my own thoughts before reading all yours...

I have to admit to mixed feelings here. Obviously parts of it were magnificent. But I don't feel like the plot was "big enough" for the character issues it had to support. I'm assuming again that this was a casualty of the strike, and that if they'd had the full run, they could have built up to a much bigger and more dramatic climax than just running around somebody's house.

But then, maybe that's kind of the point - that it's one of the ordinary, everyday adventures that finally does them in.

I have to admit, I did NOT expect them to actually go through with it, that Dean would actually go to hell. I expected them to find some way out of it at the last minute, perhaps through the use of Sam's powers, but of course with some big price to pay, which would set us up for next season. And I like that they actually talked about both those possibilities, and then didn't do them. In retrospect, Dean actually recognizing the pattern I was expecting them to fall into is a master stroke.

I also was not expecting a cliff-hanger - I was expecting them to tie it all up in this episode. Which is my problem, of course, not theirs. Perhaps again it wasn't meant to be a cliff-hanger in the original plan, but they took the opportunity the strike gave them to make it one?

When did Lilith possess Ruby? The boys are surprised that Ruby got out of their Devil's Trap, and she replies, "There's so much you don't know about me." Now that was probably just a throwaway line to get her where she needed to be, but within-show, perhaps she was already possessed by Lilith at that point, who being a stronger demon, could break out of it? But then Dean sees her "demon face" when she first pops up, and that's what helps him to realise it's not Ruby later in the episode, which suggests Lilith hadn't taken her over by that point. Which leaves us with the question of how Ruby got out of the Devil's Trap. Did she use her witchy powers (separate from her demon powers) as alluded to in "Malleus Maleficarum" ?

On a related point, how did the father know Lilith wasn't inside his daughter anymore? Especially if the mother still thought she was? Or was he just meaning, "That's not my daughter" ?

Is Ruby gone? Or now that Lilith has vacated her body, can she just get back in it again?

Also interesting how Dean kind of flip-flopped on the self-sacrifice. He planned to fight it, to try to find a way out. When none of their plans worked, and it struck midnight, he was prepared to face it, calm and resigned and accepting. But then when he actually saw the hell hound, his simple survival instinct overtook all his noble intentions and he was desperately trying to run again. That last, instinctive feeling of fight-or-flight, of refusing to give in.

 

[DS9Continuing]

Okay, having read everyone else's posts now, I see we're all mostly on the same page

Meat hooks. They were meat hooks.

Yep, I definitely flashed onto Hellraiser too.

Of course the Bon Jovi scene was pure Winchester brother. You can't manufacture chemistry like that.

That was lovely. One last attempt for a normal, brother moment. Dean trying to forget his troubles for a second, Sam resisting, then getting into it for Dean's sake, while Dean's facade slips. Beautiful and painful at the same time.

It sounds like a good idea, but I'm worried that "Ruby" will make a wisecrack about Sam having a cute ass, causing the majority of this show's fanbase to explode, throwing the Earth off its axis.

ROTFLMAO! The sheer entertainment value of watching the fandom go into vaporlock would be priceless. Some chick on another board was trying to convince people that Dean was a misogynist because she was terribly offended that Dean had called Ruby "sexist names" like "bitch" and "skank." There's always going to be fans who have a hissy over something like that or other.

I'm still determined to get to the episode where the boys get possessed by the ghosts of two old opposite-sex lovers, who are quite happy to rekindle their romance despite the new same-sex bodies...

Unfortunately, Bela gave the colt to Lilith. That's why she stole it.

Really? I didn't get that. Was that part of the deal she made to try to get out of it, along with her trying to kill Sam, that she couldn't complete?

You have a point. All the dramas on premium cable are 13 episodes or so, and they're terrific. Oh how I wish Supernatural were a cable show. Can you imagine if there weren't broadcast standards limiting them? Yowza...

Yep, like Doctor Who. Having only 13 episodes forces a sharper focus on the themes of the season. Above anything else, nu-Who has been genius at that.

But then, on the other hand, the shortened season of SN this year seemed to lead to repetitiveness. The focus on Dean's Deal was a bit too heavy IMO, in that the boys seemed to have basically the same conversation every single week. Perhaps I wouldn't have noticed it so much if I hadn't crammed the entire season into two weeks.

 

[Dorian Thompson]

That last shot of Dean impaled by the meat hooks with blood in his mouth, screaming for Sam to help him was visceral, no? This show is no Buffy when it comes to the bad stuff. Lilith got into Ruby after Ruby came into the house with the boys. She was still Ruby when she caught up to the boys outside.

s Ruby gone? Or now that Lilith has vacated her body, can she just get back in it again?

Stay tuned. Season four is available on itunes. Season four eps are all cut up on youtube. I'd post a link but I can't find the full episode online anywhere.

 

[Bob The Skutter]

But then, on the other hand, the shortened season of SN this year seemed to lead to repetitiveness. The focus on Dean's Deal was a bit too heavy IMO, in that the boys seemed to have basically the same conversation every single week. Perhaps I wouldn't have noticed it so much if I hadn't crammed the entire season into two weeks.

I think that's due to the writing starting off as a "normal" season, then being cut down, and the fact that there was the network interference to deal with.

 

[DS9Continuing]

Stay tuned. Season four is available on itunes. Season four eps are all cut up on youtube. I'd post a link but I can't find the full episode online anywhere.

It's alright - I've been catching up via... "other means."

 

[Dorian Thompson]

Ahhhh, I see. Other means are good, good things.

I know what you mean about network interference, Bob The Skutter. Thy name is Bela. You're spot on that they started writing for a normal seaon, then had to truncate things. Bela's own deal seemed to come out of nowhere. If they'd had more time to flesh it out it might have interested me more. Now they've added two guys (Castiel and Uriel--they'll both be back in the upcoming two parter) closer to middle age and the ratings go up. That's funny.

 

[Bob The Skutter]

Ahhhh, I see. Other means are good, good things.

I know what you mean about network interference, Bob The Skutter. Thy name is Bela. You're spot on that they started writing for a normal seaon, then had to truncate things. Bela's own deal seemed to come out of nowhere. If they'd had more time to flesh it out it might have interested me more. Now they've added two guys (Castiel and Uriel--they'll both be back in the upcoming two parter) closer to middle age and the ratings go up. That's funny.

I don't think that's particularly to do with the age of the actors, beyond they can give the roles some gravitas, as much as it is to do with it feeling forced when they're made to fit someone in to the plan, who wasn't originally there when they came up with it.
I'm sure if they had a sexy young woman who they came up with on their own, and had plans for, then she would fit just as well.
But I get what you're saying.

 

[Dorian Thompson]

I don't think that's particularly to do with the age of the actors, beyond they can give the roles some gravitas,

No doubt. Misha Collins and Robert Wisdom are godsends to the casting department. Perfect casting for the parts. Perfection. I can't believe they got Hildy from "Mad Men" to guest star next week.

 

[mswood]

On to the episode. I am sure the bit in the house was both a story point and an financial issue. Story point that it fits into Liliths story of liking to be in a child's body and then tormenting others.

As to teh mention of Dean's deal. I actually loved that it was such a focused part of the season. In an even bigger way then Sam's possible evil nature in season 2. After all one was just a possibility the other was a building absolute with a set deadline. That was something that was going to be huge, huge impact on both character moments and the types of cases they took (or Sam steered them to).

Yes I do assume that Ruby used her knowledge as a witch to break herself out, similar to how, Meg in Sam's meatsuit used what appeared to be a spell to damage the seal thus freeing herself in season 2.

I do want to here your opinion on season 4. Have you been watching or are you going to catch up like you did with season 3?

My problem with the final was the scenes with Lilith and the family. At this stage of the episode I simply didn't care who see was tormenting. Nothing was going to match my interest in what was happening between the guys.

Has to Bela yes she stole the colt to give to Lilith Who told her she would stop the deal, but lilith lied to Bela about that, thus Lilith has the colt.

And while the writers sis drop hints about Bela's past. HEr causing the death of a family member in that absolutely awful episode with the pirate ship, to telling Dean that he doesn't have a clue about why she is doing what she is doing in Jus in Bello. For myself it wasn't her actions (for the most part or the actress that bothered me) it was the guys reaction to her. I thought how they treated in Jus in Bello and beyond is how they should have treated her after she willingly consigned Sam to death (and Dean later her very first appearance). Neither character would forgive that. Dean, would never forgive someone causing or nearly causing the death of Sam, let alone shotting him (look how he treated Gordon who cut Sam just to prove a point about Vampires), and while Sam under normal circumstances is more willing to forgive, he isn't when its his brother who's life is on the line especially when he only has a year left.

THat to me is the thing that did the most damage to that creation and one the writers actually could have worked with even with being saddled long term with a character they created for only one episode.