Neelix and Icheb's career paths

[Trek4Ever]

One thing that's been gnawing at me as I've watched the Icheb episodes is that the crew treats him as a Starfleet cadet ever since he left his parents' homeworld meanwhile Neelix apparently wasn't ever given this consideration.

Ever since the first season, Neelix wanted so much to be a part of the crew but had trouble finding a suitable role. He started off as a guide then became a chef (which in a way is a dead end job for someone wanting to be an officer) and eventually was an ambassador (not sure if that was official when they regained contact with Starfleet).

But it seemed as if he wanted to be an officer, he pestered Tuvok to work in security (and this came to fruition in alternate timelines) and even expressed interest in engineering, but nothing came of all that.

Meanwhile with Icheb, they basically gave the lad correspondent Starfleet academy training, tests, etc. In the episode Shattered they showed a future version of him as a Starfleet officer.

So my question is why wasn't this done with Neelix? He showed the desire and he had reasonable hands-on experience plus his jack of all trades nature showed that he could've adapted to the rigors of Starfleet training. Was it because of his age? Or was it because they never took him seriously?

 

[kimc]

^ Good questions. I could have sworn there were one or two episodes where it was mentioned Neelix was serving as part of Tuvok's security team but I can't remember which ones they were. The idea seemed to be dropped though.

 

[Mr. Laser Beam]

^ Good questions. I could have sworn there were one or two episodes where it was mentioned Neelix was serving as part of Tuvok's security team but I can't remember which ones they were. The idea seemed to be dropped though.

I think the original intent of the writers *was* to have Neelix train with Tuvok in ship's security, and then Neelix would become a Starfleet security officer. I'm actually glad they didn't do that; Neelix works better as comic relief, IMHO.

I don't ever remember Neelix pestering Tuvok about this, though; he just liked to bug "Mr. Vulcan" in general.

As for Icheb, he's obviously more Starfleet material than Neelix.

 

[Akiraprise]

Well, Neelix wanted to be a part of the crew, but I don't think he really wanted to be in Starfleet right away. Plus I think Janeway realized he was a bigger asset in the position he was in. How many trade negotiations went easier because she had a native Delta Quadrant species with her, that stayed on Voyager not because he was in Starfleet but because he genuinely liked the crew? He was able to tell all the DQ species they ran into how great Voyager was without appearing too biased.

Icheb on the other hand was younger, was very intelligent, and wanted to be in Starfleet almost right away. The Voyager crew had an opportunity to mold him into a Starfleet officer from the beginning, with almost no baggage because he was so young, so they jumped on it.

I would guess Neelix's age also had something to do with it.

 

[Mrs Paris]

I think Neelix just wanted to HELP he didn't realy care how. I don't think he ever specificaly wanted to be an officer, just to contribute and help the crew.

Icheb on the other hand was far smarter than Neelix, even though it was brief he was connected to the collective mind and most likely retained a great deal of knowledge from it making him one of the smartest people on the ship

 

[JayTheTrekkie]

If "Homestead" (or if he has changed his mind and rather stay with the crew) never happened and Neelix did come to Earth with Voyager, what would he do though?

 

[Mrs Paris]

he could do anything he wanted, he could join starfleet, he could open a restaurant, he could write holo novels..

 

[Triskelion]

Trek4ever, that' s a good point you raise. In several episodes Neelix expressed clear interest in joining Starfleet; one I recall was when they were closing in on the Necrid Expanse and his knowledge of the Delta Quadrant was coming to an end. He tried both security and engineering but he was little more than an annoyance to Tuvok and Torres.

While Janeway's policy that it was a "ship of opportunity", clearly the crew thought little of Neelix's abilities. Despite his character's ebulliance and great efforts at being positive. I remember when he programmed a personal holodeck sim of a vacation spot on Talax, only to have it usurped by Tom and Harry, and turned into a pleasure resort. Neelix could have responded with a rightful cultural offense but instead he reined himself in and embraced their changes with enthusiasm. He was always accommodating people at personal cost, and his role as ambassador was earned, in my view.

But they could have at least given him a post like on a security task force or perhaps even on a damage control team. Throw the guy a bone! Give him some training! The Captain was well aware of his desires for security training but she left it alone.

I say she should have done something for Neelix, just as the other officers should have received their command opportunities too. Just because they were stranded in the DQ doesn't mean a commander couldn't take a two week vacation in his quarters and let Ensign Kim be commander for a little while. Instead, it was all a promotions freeze.

 

[anais]

I say she should have done something for Neelix, just as the other officers should have received their command opportunities too. Just because they were stranded in the DQ doesn't mean a commander couldn't take a two week vacation in his quarters and let Ensign Kim be commander for a little while. Instead, it was all a promotions freeze.

Agreed. Being stuck in the Delta Quadrant should have opened up for training and promotions. They had no other way of replacing crew, what if half the senior officers were killed off in one go? Training takes time, in the mean time they're vulnerable.

 

[Michael]

[...] Neelix would become a Starfleet security officer. I'm actually glad they didn't do that; Neelix works better as comic relief, IMHO.

Just out of curiosity, what has one thing to do with the other? He could very well be a Starfleet security officer and the comic relief. It all depends on the writing.

 

[Triskelion]

Ha ha, sorry I shot your foot off, Mr Vulcan. Was your foot always standing right there? That's not an emotion I'm detecting is it? Let me get my tricorder and scan you. Red alert, Vulcan boot coming through!

 

[Captain Proton]

Wasn't Neelix from the Delta? When Voyager was stuck in the expanse(?) and they had to form alliances so new ships entering wouldn't be attacked and pilfered Neelix told of how he formed an alliance with Voyager and that him and his ship, which Voyager has, are simply working together. Also Ichep being Borg would have all the knowledge 7 has which would include Starfleet training since the Borg assimilated Starfleet personel unless they didn't retain that knowledge. Either way I think Ichep being young and Borg would be much more valuable than a cook and I don't think anyone except maybe Naomi Wildman respected Neelix at all.

 

[exodus]

Trek4ever, that' s a good point you raise. In several episodes Neelix expressed clear interest in joining Starfleet; one I recall was when they were closing in on the Necrid Expanse and his knowledge of the Delta Quadrant was coming to an end. He tried both security and engineering but he was little more than an annoyance to Tuvok and Torres.

While Janeway's policy that it was a "ship of opportunity", clearly the crew thought little of Neelix's abilities. Despite his character's ebulliance and great efforts at being positive. I remember when he programmed a personal holodeck sim of a vacation spot on Talax, only to have it usurped by Tom and Harry, and turned into a pleasure resort. Neelix could have responded with a rightful cultural offense but instead he reined himself in and embraced their changes with enthusiasm. He was always accommodating people at personal cost, and his role as ambassador was earned, in my view.

But they could have at least given him a post like on a security task force or perhaps even on a damage control team. Throw the guy a bone! Give him some training! The Captain was well aware of his desires for security training but she left it alone.

I say she should have done something for Neelix, just as the other officers should have received their command opportunities too. Just because they were stranded in the DQ doesn't mean a commander couldn't take a two week vacation in his quarters and let Ensign Kim be commander for a little while. Instead, it was all a promotions freeze.

I think deep down inside Neelix didn't really want the job, he just was thinking of ways so he could stay onboard.

Remember, Neelix is willing to do ANYTHING to never be alone again.

 

[exodus]

I don't think anyone except maybe Naomi Wildman respected Neelix at all.

Janeway did from the start & Be'Lanna learned too.

Watch Neelix' & Be'lanna's interaction in "Day of Honor" & again in "Juggernaut", there definately a bond of friendship & respect between the two. When Neelix offers to be her "sounding board" her total attitude toward him changes and she learns to value him.

 

[Captain Proton]

I don't think anyone except maybe Naomi Wildman respected Neelix at all.

Janeway did from the start & Be'Lanna learned too.
Watch Neelix' & Be'lanna's interaction in "Day of Honor" & again in "Juggernaut", there definately a bond of friendship & respect between the two. When Neelix offers to be her "sounding board" her total attitude toward him changes and she learns to value him.

Yeah there were episodes where they bonded with Neelix but I think from the start he generally just annoyed everyone including and especially Kes and Tuvok. My favorite Neelix moment is when he shares Tuvok's room for a while and at the end Tuvok walks in on him and a Cling-on female going at it...That was funny!

 

[Triskelion]

I think deep down inside Neelix didn't really want the job, he just was thinking of ways so he could stay onboard.

Remember, Neelix is willing to do ANYTHING to never be alone again.

That is an interesting insight. But I suppose you're right, given the fact that he was basically a scavenger when Voyager found him, with no more home or people to call his own. He was just looking for some alternative there, I agree.

But I also remember him once entreating the captain that he could "swashbuckle with the best of them". I think he did want to spread his wings a bit. And when he and Tuvok rebuilt that orbital elevator, you could see Neelix's frustration with not being taken seriously even though he felt he had a real contribution to make to the ship. A feeling that Tuvok eventually validated, in that epi, and also in his goodbye when Neelix left.

 

[exodus]

I don't think anyone except maybe Naomi Wildman respected Neelix at all.

Janeway did from the start & Be'Lanna learned too.
Watch Neelix' & Be'lanna's interaction in "Day of Honor" & again in "Juggernaut", there definately a bond of friendship & respect between the two. When Neelix offers to be her "sounding board" her total attitude toward him changes and she learns to value him.

Yeah there were episodes where they bonded with Neelix but I think from the start he generally just annoyed everyone including and especially Kes and Tuvok. My favorite Neelix moment is when he shares Tuvok's room for a while and at the end Tuvok walks in on him and a Cling-on female going at it...That was funny!

Yeah, all the crew found Neelix annoying at first. Check out "Tuvix" when the Doctor rolls his eyes at mentioning the Neelix characterics Tuvix has.

That's a funny moment!

My second favorite is the one where the crew has to give up their quarters to guest and Neelix has to bunk in Sick Bay. The Doctor is annoyed that there will be people "sleeping" in his sick bay. So Neelix goes something like: "We can always sing camp fire songs." and busts out into song! Suddenly the Doctor is like, "sleeping" would be better.

However, my number one favorite Neelix moment is his introduction to Tuvok. He he gives Tuvok a big hug and Tuvok just goes rigid!