Captain Decker in TMP

[darkshadow0001]

If Kirk was not so powered-hungary in TMP to get is command back, and Captain Decker stayed on Enterprise as Captain, how do you think the movie would of turned out? Would Decker eventually merge with V'Ger at the end, or could it have been someone else, say Chekov or Sulu (since they were the only other two crew members to be "stunned" by her appearance [Lieutenant Ilea] ) Also, would Enterprise have gone through that worm-hole imbalance if Kirk would of let Decker stay on as Captain?

Thoughts?

 

[cardinal biggles]

It wasn't really necessary to actually bust Kirk and Decker down in rank for the movie, apart from the obvious symbolism that Captain Kirk is back! That, and Kirk was kind of a dick throughout the film.

 

[Mr. Fergy]

^ Agreed, ofcourse we seen far worse in Trek.

 

[Basill]

I think the mission would have been a colossal failure had Kirk not been there. I also think the mission would have been a colossal failure had Decker not been there to keep Kirk in check. The wormhole might never have happened without Kirk... but V'Ger would probably have been intercepted far later and with far less success. Decker was all prepared to fly in with screens and shields, which Kirk appropriately suspected (based on Klingon/Epsilon evidence) might incur Intruder wrath. Of course, no one would have been successful if Spock hadn't shown up when he did. My opinion of course.

 

[darkshadow0001]

I think the mission would have been a colossal failure had Kirk not been there. I also think the mission would have been a colossal failure had Decker not been there to keep Kirk in check. The wormhole might never have happened without Kirk... but V'Ger would probably have been intercepted far later and with far less success. Decker was all prepared to fly in with screens and shields, which Kirk appropriately suspected (based on Klingon/Epsilon evidence) might incur Intruder wrath. Of course, no one would have been successful if Spock hadn't shown up when he did. My opinion of course.

I agree with you on that one. I also realize that this was a moment for Kirk to come back into the picture, which was done quite well for the film. I don't care with what a lot of people say about TMP, it's Star Trek down to its core.

 

[rocketscientist]

I think the mission would have been a colossal failure had Kirk not been there. I also think the mission would have been a colossal failure had Decker not been there to keep Kirk in check. The wormhole might never have happened without Kirk... but V'Ger would probably have been intercepted far later and with far less success. Decker was all prepared to fly in with screens and shields, which Kirk appropriately suspected (based on Klingon/Epsilon evidence) might incur Intruder wrath. Of course, no one would have been successful if Spock hadn't shown up when he did. My opinion of course.

I agree with you on that one. I also realize that this was a moment for Kirk to come back into the picture, which was done quite well for the film. I don't care with what a lot of people say about TMP, it's Star Trek down to its core.

I agree too. I'm a huge Kirk fan, and I will say he was acting like a jerk, and he knew it, in this film. That's why he wanted McCoy there, to make sure he was making the right decisions. He didn't trust his motivations, but it was good that he was objective enough to get McCoy on board. After the wormhole fiasco, he also recognized that he needed Decker as well, for his familiarity with ship systems and also for his alternative viewpoint. Kirk picked Decker for command of the Enterprise for a reason: he was a great officer.

That said, I agree with Basil's analysis: the mission would've failed without Kirk, Spock, and McCoy. Spock accelerated the process of getting the new engines on-line and made the pivotal space-walk into V'Ger. McCoy helped in the analysis of the Ilia probe and made sure Kirk was doing his job. Kirk got them through V'Ger's defenses, using his experience with first contacts (especially wrt extremely powerful entities). Decker more belligerant course would've likely resulted in the Enterprise being destroyed by V'Ger and then earth.

 

[Unicron]

I think most of the cast could have used better character development, much of which happens in Gene's novelization of TMP. That's one of my main problems with the movie, the characters were not handled nearly as well as they could have been.

 

[Timo]

...But at least interesting things are done to them, or told about them, off screen. McCoy is sent off to civilian life, Spock chooses the career of a religious hermit, Kirk loses his soul to bureaucracy and becomes an asshole, Uhura gets a backbone, etc. It's convenient to do "character development" like that offscreen, so that you don't have to write the dialogue to actually show it.

The mission really hanged on a thread, succeeding thanks to a series of coincidences that brought the right people together. And I have absolutely no problem with that. That's realism: when armageddon thunders towards you with just a day or two of advance warning, you have to rely on miracles.

Perhaps another set of coincidences would have saved Earth if the adventure we saw did not pan out. Starfleet might have had other competent people to handle the incident, and other ships that could have withstood V'Ger's initial wrath or cleverly avoided it. That would be realism, too. No doubt there were Plans B, C, D, E and F being worked out as soon as Plan A was approved, and some might have been ready for execution by the time V'Ger reached Earth. It's just nice for us viewers that our very own hero got to do the honors.

Timo Saloniemi

 

[Maurice]

^^^Except that Starfleet had no idea Plan A hadn't been incinerated after it disappeared into the Cloud. Unless "all planetary defense systems have just gone inoperative" is Plan B.

 

[Peach Wookiee]

Plan C: "Give me a reading..." "Our Father who art in heaven..."

 

[Mr. Fergy]

^ Agreed. Though "Plan C" probably wouldn't have worked.

 

[Norrin Radd]

I trust you will... nursemaid me through these difficulties, Mister?

I lost all respect for the man with that simple phrase.

I mean...nursemaid...Kirk? Talk about being neutered.

Who wrote this shit?

 

[Maurice]

^^^I believe that was sarcasm on Kirk's part.

 

[Basill]

^^^ Yeah, that's smartass 101. He was trying to be witty and save face when he realized that Decker had a point. Hell, he had to pause and think about it. And "Capt Neuter" was back in form just seconds later when he dismissed the commander.

Now McCoy's rant immediately following... There is where the neutering begins.

(God, I love that movie. )

 

[Mr. Fergy]

^ I couldn't agree more.

 

[Timo]

That was always the thing I liked best about it all: the characters acted like realistic adults (that is, like a bunch of selfish kids) at long last. Rather than comic book heroes, they had become people, with aims, dreams and jealousies. The plot may have sucked and the execution may have left a lot to be desired, but the fact that Kirk had become a glorious antihero made it all worthwhile.

That, and the gorgeous music, of course.

Timo Saloniemi