NAZIs and STAR TREK

[Mr. Laser Beam]

I always figured Nazi episodes were written mainly so they could use the various Nazi props and costumes that most studios have lying around from WWII movies. Great way to save money.

They could have at least tried to get the uniforms *accurate*.

If you're writing something to reuse props on the cheap; presumably getting the cash to improve on those props is out of the question.

Actually I meant the proper *use* of the uniforms. As it stands, there was no pattern to it. They just basically put random SS, Gestapo, etc. uniforms on anyone they could find. One thing they *did* get right is McCoy's rank (he wears the correct insignia for a Colonel, which is the kind of Nazi uniform Kirk asks for).

 

[Michael]

Lets see some of the many positive contributions that Germany has given the world instead (Space Program?)

I can't think of many. Kraftwerk is cool. As are Rammstein. Are there other things?

They could have at least tried to get the uniforms *accurate*.

If you're writing something to reuse props on the cheap; presumably getting the cash to improve on those props is out of the question.

Actually I meant the proper *use* of the uniforms. As it stands, there was no pattern to it. They just basically put random SS, Gestapo, etc. uniforms on anyone they could find. One thing they *did* get right is McCoy's rank (he wears the correct insignia for a Colonel, which is the kind of Nazi uniform Kirk asks for).

Sorry, I just have to ask. Who cares? I mean, apart from the few people who actually know the proper use of the uniforms and insignia. I can't imagine that there are many of them.

 

[Kegek]

Lets see some of the many positive contributions that Germany has given the world instead (Space Program?)

I can't think of many. Kraftwerk is cool. As are Rammstein. Are there other things?

Frankfurters and Hamburgers? I think...

Actually I meant the proper *use* of the uniforms. As it stands, there was no pattern to it. They just basically put random SS, Gestapo, etc. uniforms on anyone they could find. One thing they *did* get right is McCoy's rank (he wears the correct insignia for a Colonel, which is the kind of Nazi uniform Kirk asks for).

Sorry, I just have to ask. Who cares? I mean, apart from the few people who actually know the proper use of the uniforms and insignia. I can't imagine that there are many of them.

Eh, you'd be surprised. I know quite a few people who pride themselves on knowing arcane details about the Wehrmacht and other WWII armies.

Anyway, putting random uniforms on everyone seems to be consistent with raiding costumes from other movies to fit your budget (and thus understandably not being too picky), Babanagoosh, but I'll concede it as a fair criticism. If one wants to rationalise it, well, perhaps the Ekosians only had vague, general information on Nazi minuatie and only got the big picture and the aggressive hand movements down.

 

[Michael]

Eh, you'd be surprised. I know quite a few people who pride themselves on knowing arcane details about the Wehrmacht and other WWII armies.

Anyway, putting random uniforms on everyone seems to be consistent with raiding costumes from other movies to fit your budget (and thus understandably not being too picky), Babanagoosh, but I'll concede it as a fair criticism. If one wants to rationalise it, well, perhaps the Ekosians only had vague, general information on Nazi minuatie and only got the big picture and the aggressive hand movements down.

Fair enough, there might be more people than I think. But no-one can tell me that the people who would wonder about such minor details are actually in the majority.

 

[Nerys Myk]

I've never understood the reaction Space Nazis get. They appeared only three times (IIRC). So the concepts isn't over used, though it is a bit ludicrous. John Gill must be the worst Historian ever or the details of the Nazi movement were somehow lost. The ENT episode seems to get most of the derision. Even though it takes place in the 1940s, on Earth and many of the Nazi's in question are humans and not aliens. (The aliens have merely allied themselves with the Nazis) Its a nice piece of Alternative history. I especially like Archer teaming up with the American resistance, including a couple of mobsters turned freedom fighters.

As for non Nazi Germans, there is Karl Jaeger in "Squire of Gothos" and Kurt Mandl in " Home Soil". No doubt the New Berlin Colony was named for the German city. The Oberth class is named for German scientist Hermann Oberth.

 

[RobertScorpio]

I've never understood the reaction Space Nazis get. They appeared only three times (IIRC). So the concepts isn't over used, though it is a bit ludicrous. John Gill must be the worst Historian ever or the details of the Nazi movement were somehow lost. The ENT episode seems to get most of the derision. Even though it takes place in the 1940s, on Earth and many of the Nazi's in question are humans and not aliens. (The aliens have merely allied themselves with the Nazis) Its a nice piece of Alternative history. I especially like Archer teaming up with the American resistance, including a couple of mobsters turned freedom fighters.

As for non Nazi Germans, there is Karl Jaeger in "Squire of Gothos" and Kurt Mandl in " Home Soil". No doubt the New Berlin Colony was named for the German city. The Oberth class is named for German scientist Hermann Oberth.

Hmmm...good points. However, I think Gil's logic is not flawed at all. The allies pretty much kept Germany under their boots after WW1. Had they followed USA's advice of not being so harsh on the Germans post WW1, I think the rise of Hitler would have been nullified. But, they did keep them under a boot. Hitler fed off that and did indeed bring back the German people and unified them. Unfortunately he was an absolute nut and his final 'solution' was barbaric and tragic. Gil got the first part right, but allowed another nut job to come to power.

Rob

 

[Sector 7]

Eh, you'd be surprised. I know quite a few people who pride themselves on knowing arcane details about the Wehrmacht and other WWII armies.

Anyway, putting random uniforms on everyone seems to be consistent with raiding costumes from other movies to fit your budget (and thus understandably not being too picky), Babanagoosh, but I'll concede it as a fair criticism. If one wants to rationalise it, well, perhaps the Ekosians only had vague, general information on Nazi minuatie and only got the big picture and the aggressive hand movements down.

Fair enough, there might be more people than I think. But no-one can tell me that the people who would wonder about such minor details are actually in the majority.

You DO know you are stating this on a board dedicated to debating the smallest "minor details" of Star Trek... right???

 

[Timo]

John Gill must be the worst Historian ever or the details of the Nazi movement were somehow lost.

Once again I'd like to argue that John Gill got exactly what he always planned to get - lifetime position as the absolute dictator of a planet of his own. And fomenting a Nazi revival was admittedly a pretty nifty way to accomplish that, as it would produce a personality cult almost as a side effect, and would be a relatively stable way to sustain dictatorship, too, as long as there were enemies left to hate. Too bad that it backfired when one of his immediate underlings usurped his powers.

Of course, our heroes simply refused to accept this and tried to pretend that Gill had originally had benevolent aims. And when they got the drugged-out historian cum tyrant in their hands, they put words in his mouth and interpreted his mumblings as supporting the "good intentions" pretense. Note that no piece of information objectively supports the idea that Gill would not have wanted the full Nazi effect, or that he would have wanted to help the Ekosians.

Timo Saloniemi

 

[Saxman1]

When strapped for an idea, use space Nazis - saves $ on costumes. I know they weren't used that often on Trek, but if I never see "Patterns Of Force," The Voyager or ENT Nazi arcs again, that's cool. Bleh.

 

[CommanderRaytas]

Lets see some of the many positive contributions that Germany has given the world instead (Space Program?)

I can't think of many. Kraftwerk is cool. As are Rammstein. Are there other things?

Uh.... jeez, I don't know. Television? Automobiles? Bookprint? Germany is the world's export champion, too.

Imagine America without tv and cars. It would be the end.

I still hope you were joking, though. Because otherwise, you'd be insulting your own intelligence.

 

[Michael]

Lets see some of the many positive contributions that Germany has given the world instead (Space Program?)

I can't think of many. Kraftwerk is cool. As are Rammstein. Are there other things?

Uh.... jeez, I don't know. Television? Automobiles? Bookprint? Germany is the world's export champion, too.

Imagine America without tv and cars. It would be the end.

I still hope you were joking, though. Because otherwise, you'd be insulting your own intelligence.

I was joking! (Well, kind of.) I'm writing from Bielefeld right now. I am German myself.

I just find it hard sometimes to think of any contributions of Germany. Guess that's because I am German myself. I don't know. To be honest, I hate this differentiation anyway: Germany has done that; England has done that ... etc. I just see us as one Earth for the most part. Guess that's why I love Star Trek.

Anyway, Rammstein and Kraftwerk are still cool! BTW, wasn't the first computer (aka Rechenmachine) constructed in Germany, too (Konrad Zuse)?

 

[Kegek]

Imagine America without tv and cars. It would be the end.

Imagine America without hamburgers.

Well; and Nietzsche. I guess they're both important...

 

[CommanderRaytas]

NCC 1701: Great, I'm relived, because I really like reading your posts and it's so hard to get fine, subtle humour over the net.

I must apologise!

I've been living in Germany for almost 4 years now, and I like it very much.

But you're right... it's so irrelevant who has invented this or that.

Hey, what about Tokio Hotel? Bwahahaha!

 

[Kegek]

I've been living in Germany for almost 4 years now, and I like it very much.

Fantastic country. Love vacationing there. Second best place in Europe, really.

 

[CommanderRaytas]

I've been living in Germany for almost 4 years now, and I like it very much.

Fantastic country. Love vacationing there. Second best place in Europe, really.

What's the best?

Corby! Funky little town. Got myself a job there, later this year.... again.

 

[Kegek]

I've been living in Germany for almost 4 years now, and I like it very much.

Fantastic country. Love vacationing there. Second best place in Europe, really.

What's the best?

Ireland, naturally.

 

[Michael]

NCC 1701: Great, I'm relived, because I really like reading your posts and it's so hard to get fine, subtle humour over the net.

Danke für die Blumen. And sorry for being so unclear. To be fair, you couldn't possibly know I'm German. BTW, I enjoy your posts, too.

I must apologise!

No, you don't have to. I figure now that my post was really misleading.

But you're right... it's so irrelevant who has invented this or that.

Well, at least that's the way I see it. And I guess that was my point in the earlier post.

Hey, what about Tokio Hotel? Bwahahaha!

NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[Michael]

What's the best?

Ireland, naturally.

I'd sooooo love to visit Ireland, actually. I'm just missing the necessary petty cash.

Fantastic country. Love vacationing there. Second best place in Europe, really.

Yeah, but who would want to live on Risa?

 

[MarianLH]

I just find it hard sometimes to think of any contributions of Germany.

What about the printing press? That was kinda significant.


Marian

 

[Noname Given]

Today I was watching TOS. My wife and I watched Patterns of Force. Though the message is pretty in-your-face, the story is actually very frightening in what it was saying. As we watched Kirk and Spock in Nazi uniforms my wife asked me how many episodes, of all TREKs, actually mention Hitler/and or the Nazis. I could only come up with two. Patterns of Force and City on the Edge of Forever. Do any of the other show TREK shows actually mention Hitler or Nazis? Or was this just a TOS thing...

Robert
Scorpio

You have to remember something. When Star Trek premired, WWII had only been over for 21 years; and we were in the height of the 'Cold War' which was one of the major result to come out of the aftermath of that war. Hitler was the worst and most murderous dictator to date at that time, and mae a good boogeyman, as some people honestly believed the bodies found in the Bunker were not his and Eva Braun's; this he was 'waiting in the wings' for a chance to return.

Look at how many TV shows today use middle-eastern terrorists; or a 'muslim radical' as the bad guy. It's now been 17 years since the end of the first first Iraq war, 7 years since the 9/11 attacks and technically, the latest Iraq war ended years ago - the U.S. caught Saddam and his own people put him on trial and executed him; and we're supposedly only still there 'maintaining the peace' so that the fledgling Iraqui government can get on it's feet and take over and govern itself (yes, it's a clusterf*ck and that's not what seems to really be going on of late but technically, that's still the 'stated' mission.

Today, many people are still paranoid a few Islamic radicals could really bring this nation to its knees in some fashion (Something I think is ridiculous as we did have a 'Cold War' with a major World superpower WITH nukes - the U.S.S.R. - yet after the McCarthy situation we learned the hard way that subverting the U.S. Constitution didn't help, or make the country safer or make its citizens feel safer - imo, it would be nice if th GWB administration actually bothered to READ or LEARN from U.S. history - but after McCarthy we conducted and 'won' the 'Cold War' without subverting the U.S. Constitution; and would have impeached the one President who tried - Richard Nixon - had he not resigned before the Senate vote - but I'm getting off track...)

But the bottom line the point I was trying to make: Star Trek was a product of it's time and two decades after WWII people still feared the possiblity that Nazi radicals/supporters that were still alive might try something. That's why 'Nazis' were used in the 1960ies so much; much like nameless 'Islamic Terrorists' are used as 'boogeyman villians' in shows today.