Why is canon important in a prequel?

[starburst]

I know many people say the original Enterprise is dated (especially the interior) but I think it could be pulled off with just a little bit of tweaking for modern audiences (different lighting, muted colors, maybe a little more set dressing).

I agree, the details are what make it look dated, if it were me I would stick with same basic sets just add more details especially when it comes to the controls mainly adding some LCD screens. Yes the Defiant looked good on ENT and it was nostalgic just in an "updated" sence thats what I would like.

For me I would like to see the same core (canon) characters even if everything else has been 'rebooted' and changed in terms of sets, props ect even if then it goes off in a way which doesnt lead onto the TOS era from TOS which is what I think is likely.

People are still hoping and assuming this is meant to be the same ship from the 60s and somehow at the end of the movie everything will be like that which sounds to me just a little naive. Why would they spend who knows how much designing and building new sets, costumes and props for this movie with the hopes of starting a new series and then go back to TOS!

I think the main mistake was to call it Star Trek XI in the first place and not just 'Star Trek', its not like this is a James Bond flick where the fans are used to a new Bond every couple of movies which is kinda supposed to be the same one but not really as he seems to get younger as time goes on (at least Doctor Who got that sorted with regenerations)

 

[Tralah]

The movie as far as we know IS officially just called "Star Trek" not "Star Trek XI". A lot of us refer to this movie as "Star Trek XI" because it makes it easier to clarify that we're talking about the 11th Star Trek movie that's being made. They dropped the roman numerals as an official part of the movies' titles after Star Trek VI and there's no indication that they'll suddenly start using them again for this movie when they didn't for the TNG movies.

 

[starburst]

The movie as far as we know IS officially just called "Star Trek" not "Star Trek XI". A lot of us refer to this movie as "Star Trek XI" because it makes it easier to clarify that we're talking about the 11th Star Trek movie that's being made. They dropped the roman numerals as an official part of the movies' titles after Star Trek VI and there's no indication that they'll suddenly start using them again for this movie when they didn't for the TNG movies.

Before it was announced as "Star Trek" the official website did call it "Star Trek XI"...anyways saying that was more to parallel it with the Bond films and continuity while the new ones are a restart much as this one may well be, just like the new Batman series.

In other words I can see 'canon' going out of the window in terms of the future in the movies timeline, so there isnt deffinatly going to be say a Khan and the Enterprise may never be destroyed and they have an Ent-A and Kirk may well not die on Veridian III

 

[Mr. Laser Beam]

In other words I can see 'canon' going out of the window in terms of the future in the movies timeline, so there isnt deffinatly going to be say a Khan and the Enterprise may never be destroyed and they have an Ent-A and Kirk may well not die on Veridian III

No, Abrams has already said they won't do that.

Different visual style notwithstanding, this film will be in the same continuity as everything else. Nothing has proven otherwise.

 

[Tralah]

Before it was announced as "Star Trek" the official website did call it "Star Trek XI"...anyways saying that was more to parallel it with the Bond films and continuity while the new ones are a restart much as this one may well be, just like the new Batman series.

Well, I wasn't following the movie very closely until it was announced that Nimoy and Quinto were going to be playing Spock, but regardless it doesn't sound like "XI" is going to be officially part of the title at all, even if it was referred to in that manner very, very early in preproduction on an official site.

 

[Mr. Laser Beam]

Before it was announced as "Star Trek" the official website did call it "Star Trek XI"...anyways saying that was more to parallel it with the Bond films and continuity while the new ones are a restart much as this one may well be, just like the new Batman series.

Well, I wasn't following the movie very closely until it was announced that Nimoy and Quinto were going to be playing Spock, but regardless it doesn't sound like "XI" is going to be officially part of the title at all, even if it was referred to in that manner very, very early in preproduction on an official site.

It's not.

The name of the film is, simply, Star Trek.

 

[starburst]

In other words I can see 'canon' going out of the window in terms of the future in the movies timeline, so there isnt deffinatly going to be say a Khan and the Enterprise may never be destroyed and they have an Ent-A and Kirk may well not die on Veridian III

No, Abrams has already said they won't do that.

Different visual style notwithstanding, this film will be in the same continuity as everything else. Nothing has proven otherwise.

If they are (and do it well) then much praise...Ive been avoiding thinking in any terms about any of this anyway as I dont really want to know about the plot when that sort of information is released/leaked

It remains to be seen how closely they follow as alot of the canon minded have obviously already revolted against cosmetic changes which I dont mind about, like I said I want the characters and the history (or future) to stay mostly the same although Im still not sure how they would do that and keep any sence of threat or doom (although saying that you always worry Khan might win or Chang, thats escapism for you)...then again Im no writer in any way.

 

[ST:RPG]

In other words I can see 'canon' going out of the window in terms of the future in the movies timeline, so there isnt deffinatly going to be say a Khan and the Enterprise may never be destroyed and they have an Ent-A and Kirk may well not die on Veridian III

No, Abrams has already said they won't do that.

Different visual style notwithstanding, this film will be in the same continuity as everything else. Nothing has proven otherwise.

If they are (and do it well) then much praise...Ive been avoiding thinking in any terms about any of this anyway as I dont really want to know about the plot when that sort of information is released/leaked

It remains to be seen how closely they follow as alot of the canon minded have obviously already revolted against cosmetic changes which I dont mind about, like I said I want the characters and the history (or future) to stay mostly the same although Im still not sure how they would do that and keep any sence of threat or doom (although saying that you always worry Khan might win or Chang, thats escapism for you)...then again Im no writer in any way.

Remember what happened at the end of Enterprise? Cmdr. Riker and Troi came out, showing us that the entire series was nothing but a holodeck experience.

Who's to say that the entire past of Trek might be relegated to an alternate timeline? Perhaps all we've seen so far is nothing but a Mirror Universe!

 

[Michael]

No, Abrams has already said they won't do that.

Different visual style notwithstanding, this film will be in the same continuity as everything else. Nothing has proven otherwise.

If they are (and do it well) then much praise...Ive been avoiding thinking in any terms about any of this anyway as I dont really want to know about the plot when that sort of information is released/leaked

It remains to be seen how closely they follow as alot of the canon minded have obviously already revolted against cosmetic changes which I dont mind about, like I said I want the characters and the history (or future) to stay mostly the same although Im still not sure how they would do that and keep any sence of threat or doom (although saying that you always worry Khan might win or Chang, thats escapism for you)...then again Im no writer in any way.

Remember what happened at the end of Enterprise? Cmdr. Riker and Troi came out, showing us that the entire series was nothing but a holodeck experience.

Who's to say that the entire past of Trek might be relegated to an alternate timeline? Perhaps all we've seen so far is nothing but a Mirror Universe!

Every Niner worth his salt knows that Trek is merely a figment of 50s science-ficiton writer Benny Russell. (Well, maybe he didn't think up "These Are The Voyages", though. )

 

[Mr. Laser Beam]

Remember what happened at the end of Enterprise? Cmdr. Riker and Troi came out, showing us that the entire series was nothing but a holodeck experience.

No, just the final episode.

 

[Therin of Andor]

Canon only applies to what we have seen- introducing new things is easy! The main point is to try to keep the look or feel, to make it seem that canon has been adhered to.

Canon only applies to the people writing the licensed ST tie-ins: comics, RPGs, encyclopedias, novels and short stories. It only really applies to the fans if they're trying to complain that original tech, characters or events in a licensed tie-in would have filled a plot hole in a canonical work.

The writers of the TV series and movies have always been free to invent new stuff, and to ignore old stuff as often as they like! Gene Roddenberry "rewrote" and revised stuff all the time!

 

[ktanner3]

Oh for goodness sakes. If the OP is worried about the "look" being canon then I guess he didn't like any of the movies since the uniforms and ship got a major overhaul. Good thing the internet wasn't around back in the late 70s or people like the OP would be complaining about the animal looking klingons,new uniforms,new ship and the bald navigator not being canon. I guess Gene Rodenberry himself wasn't for sticking to canon either.

 

[hmbnimbus]

Oh for goodness sakes. If the OP is worried about the "look" being canon then I guess he didn't like any of the movies since the uniforms and ship got a major overhaul. Good thing the internet wasn't around back in the late 70s or people like the OP would be complaining about the animal looking klingons,new uniforms,new ship and the bald navigator not being canon. I guess Gene Rodenberry himself wasn't for sticking to canon either.

May my first ever post echo these sentiments exactly.

 

[Michael]

Oh for goodness sakes. If the OP is worried about the "look" being canon then I guess he didn't like any of the movies since the uniforms and ship got a major overhaul. Good thing the internet wasn't around back in the late 70s or people like the OP would be complaining about the animal looking klingons,new uniforms,new ship and the bald navigator not being canon. I guess Gene Rodenberry himself wasn't for sticking to canon either.

May my first ever post echo these sentiments exactly.

May my 2329th post welcome you to this board, hmbnimbus.

 

[Therin of Andor]

And history can not be changed in its purest form.

History is written by the victors.

And sometimes rewritten, as new information, biases or understandings come to light.

PS. Delete key in Edit mode is refusing to work, so I must apologise that three more posts follow from me. I've tried to fix it, and condense the posts into one, but my "cut and paste" function isn't working and hitting Delete won't remove the posts. Sorry mods.

 

[Therin of Andor]

Good thing the internet wasn't around back in the late 70s or people like the OP would be complaining about the animal looking klingons,new uniforms,new ship and the bald navigator not being canon.

Check out the reactions of fans - and even Harlan Ellison - in "Starlog" (back issues from about #31-40), volumes of "The Best of Trek" ("Star Trek Mysteries - Solved!", where the reaction to TMP Klingons was "Who are those Munchkins?") and fanzines reassuring fans that if they imagine that TMP occurred in an alternative universe then all would be right with the world!

Hilarious.

 

[Therin of Andor]

I could be wrong, but didn't Roddenberry insist the changes that were made to the Enterprise for TMP have an explanation?

Was that the same time that Walter Koenig did some uncredited rewriting for him on a project and - and as a thank you - Roddenberry told him that ST would be soon recast with the likes of Paul Newman and Robert Redford in the lead roles as Kirk & Spock, and that Koenig would be playing the part of Pavel Chekov's father?

True.

 

[Therin of Andor]

I think the main mistake was to call it Star Trek XI in the first place and not just 'Star Trek'

The current producers have never been calling it Star Trek XI.

Sorry mods - I had no idea these posts would end up one under the other; I was lost in the mire of previous posts and didn't think that debate would be so slow that I'd end up with four-in-a-row.

I've tried to condense them all into one longer post, but the "Delete" function is refusing to work, and so is "cut and paste". Sorry.

 

[TheMasterOfOrion]

It was a flower-like design in TOS. A lot of traditionalists were disappointed by the use of the delta.

I have to agree with the traditionalists

 

[Jackson_Roykirk]

^
^^
^^^In my personal attempt to reconcile the use of the "Delta" as the insigia for Starfleet Command with TOS, I like to think of it in this manner:

The "Daisy (flower) Insignia" was worn by starbase personnel and was NOT Starfleet's insignia. The official insignia for StarFleet command was the "Delta Insignia", and IF the Enterprise was the flagship of the fleet, then it adopted the "delta" as its own. So it was the Enterprise that took the Delta from Starfleet, not vice-versa.

Before you say anything, I realize it is not canon that the Enterprise ever was the "Flagship of Starfleet", but there is nothing that says it wasn't the flagship either.