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I can't believe she didn't complain about Geordie

That's a big reach imho. Geordi interacts with all of them at Poker routinely. He's befriended plenty of people. I will concede that he was shown to have social struggles with romance & occasionally with misunderstandings, like Scotty, and maybe a couple others IIRC

But he commands a team in engineering on the flagship, & seemingly rather well. He mentors both Barclay (who does seem to suffer from a social condition) and also Sonya Gomez. He normally gets on very well with Riker & Wesley. He singlehandedly sorts out dealing with a hostile Romulan in The Enemy, by showing exceptional social capability. For heaven's sake, in The Minds Eye, he's off to vacation on RISA:guffaw:

Hell, he's so approachable & friendly, that in Disaster bloody Beverly is trying to rope him into playing the Major General in Pirates of Penzance lol, and he actually tries it a bit!

BTW, we may overlook it, due to its brevity, but Geordi LaForge is the best man at Miles O'Brien's wedding! He's not perfect, but he's certainly not autistic or socially stunted by any pathological metric IMHO. He looks to be very well integrated into that social circle.

I think there's a lot to unpick here. Firstly that deeply introverted people can fake it. I think I've heard that people are neurodivergent can 'pass' or 'mask', but that doesn't mean they're not struggling.

I think also possible to be socially connected yet deeply lonely. It's something I've struggled with at points. You can go down a list of things you do and people you know, but it may not solve a deep need for a social connection you're not getting.

Geordi may do well at dealing with men and machines, but with women then it may get harder for him. And of course the writers played that up.

It's also easy to get things wrong. I think I'm pretty grown up and understand people then I'll do something that'll upset someone as i didn't see it coming. So as adults we can get things wrong despite on the surface being reasonably competent.

And how Geordi continued to lie, claiming he was only looking for Leah's "friendship."
Did he lie though? No one can really tell what was in his mind. I see someone who was after connection, with someone he respected through a fake prism of a holodeck episode. Was there a crush, some love in there? Most likely. But I think it's also slippery slope when two senior staff members can't have dinner together. We see it many times in Trek.

I'm not defending Geordi completely... or more specifically how the writers wrote him to be creepy. But I do challenge that he had malice, or is a pretty much borderline rapist how it's portrayed sometimes. I see a sort of infatuation from someone who actually has less social skills than it may seem at points, and written in a way that played up the cringe-worthy moments for drama. And as they have 40 minutes it moves fast vs something where it could have been explored slower on an arc-driven show.


Also on a related note, I think the whole use of holodeck with real people seems worse today. Barclay was played for laughs despite being far worse. The Geordi situation was largely written him as being awkward. I think it feels worse today because we are in a world where people are being deep faked and used in AI - and of course women are getting the brunt of it, as we seems to do as a society. It feels a lot more real today than the writers were giving it at the time where it was largely played as harmless and japery.
 
Excuse me, are we supposed to appreciate Geordi for not physically forcing Leah to stay at the dinner?

We're setting the bar very low.
Forgive me if I'm misinterpreting but you seem to be equating the two in terms of severity. You describe Geordi's actions repeatedly as akin to sexual harrassment and assault which is incorrect he never did any of those things. I appreciate that I may have missed the mark as text based communication is the easiest for misunderstandings.
 
I appreciate that I may have missed the mark as text based communication is the easiest for misunderstandings.

I understood what you meant. I think people take things too literally either by choice or by accident. I think if people took the approach of being sensible they would would not read your message to mean you think it's realistically an option that Geordi would detain Leah for dinner.
 
One of the problems when discussing this episode is that, narratively, it undoubtedly takes Geordi's side.

Let's put aside for a moment the personal judgment of what one thinks of Geordi's behavior; in the episode, we're practically bombarded by the fact that Geordi didn't do anything wrong; at most, he got carried away by his enthusiasm. When Leah demands an explanation, Geordi is filled with Righteous Anger. We see Leah devastated, realizing her own wrongdoing. In the end, she's the only one who apologizes. Geordi doesn't just apologize, he doesn't even try to say something like, "Maybe I overdid it."

Other times, TNG has managed to maintain ambiguity and avoid making an immediate judgment. Quin hasn't. Viewers are bombarded with a simple message:

"GEORDI IS RIGHT. LEAH IS WRONG."

What leaves me perplexed is that until Leah is rightfully outraged by what she found on the holodeck, the episode is fairly balanced. From that point on, there's a clear shift in direction; any ambiguity about Geordi's actions is swept away: he didn't do anything wrong, all the blame lies with Leah.

My guess is that the ending was perhaps more nuanced. Geordi even admitted his guilt. But it was the '90s. It was inconceivable that a man should apologize for his attentions toward a woman. It would have to reach the "Serial Killer" level before saying, "Maybe he's doing something wrong."

So I'm guessing there were some late rewrites where it's made explicit that one of the Enterprise heroes has nothing to apologize for.
 
My guess is that the ending was perhaps more nuanced. Geordi even admitted his guilt. But it was the '90s. It was inconceivable that a man should apologize for his attentions toward a woman. It would have to reach the "Serial Killer" level before saying, "Maybe he's doing something wrong."
You must have lived in a different 90's then I did...
 
I'm going to make assumptions.

Geordi has taken every single woman of an appropriate age, including Beverly and Troi, on the same date. I'm not saying he likes these two as more than friends, but it's rude to exclude them just because they are friends, and he is desperate, or he asked them to audit his performance?

Women talk, which means that if there are three woman on Enterprise he hasn't asked to go on exactly the same date, they all know that he thinks that they suck, since all their friends, dozens, if not hundreds of women, have already been on the hot seat from the Geordi experience, and these last ditch unplucked fruit definitely resent him, because the little shit was not saving the best for last.
 
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"Revenge of the Nerds" had only been out seven years. And it took thirty years before anyone said, "Uh, maybe what they do to women in the movie isn't okay?"

"Poindexter" (Timothy Busfield) is being charged with criminal misconduct to a minor in New Mexico. Trial is set for 2027.

"Lewis" (Robert Carradine) died in February. The family is suing the Hospital.
 
One of the problems when discussing this episode is that, narratively, it undoubtedly takes Geordi's side.

Let's put aside for a moment the personal judgment of what one thinks of Geordi's behavior; in the episode, we're practically bombarded by the fact that Geordi didn't do anything wrong; at most, he got carried away by his enthusiasm. When Leah demands an explanation, Geordi is filled with Righteous Anger. We see Leah devastated, realizing her own wrongdoing. In the end, she's the only one who apologizes. Geordi doesn't just apologize, he doesn't even try to say something like, "Maybe I overdid it."

Other times, TNG has managed to maintain ambiguity and avoid making an immediate judgment. Quin hasn't. Viewers are bombarded with a simple message:

"GEORDI IS RIGHT. LEAH IS WRONG."
If we evaluate Geordi was not honest about the situation up front, dishonesty is wrong sure. He expected his relationship with bio Leah to be like it was with holo Leah. That's just stupidity flat on its face.

Geordi had the computer create an interactive model of the ships designer with what ostensibly was a 90% accurate personality for use in a crisis. Nothing wrong there. The hologram initiated flirty behaviour and was the persistent party not Geordi. And the furthest it went was the hologram kissing him.

Leah came onto the flagship of the Federation under false pretenses or at least veiled pretenses. She came with prejudgements and hostility. Then she accuses Geordi with zero evidence of purposefully using her likeness to conjure up a sex doll.
What leaves me perplexed is that until Leah is rightfully outraged by what she found on the holodeck, the episode is fairly balanced. From that point on, there's a clear shift in direction; any ambiguity about Geordi's actions is swept away: he didn't do anything wrong, all the blame lies with Leah.
Leah is more wrong in this situation.
My guess is that the ending was perhaps more nuanced. Geordi even admitted his guilt. But it was the '90s. It was inconceivable that a man should apologize for his attentions toward a woman. It would have to reach the "Serial Killer" level before saying, "Maybe he's doing something wrong."
A man makes a clumsy attempt at forming an informal relationship with a colleague. A woman makes a false accusation of sexual assault with no proof.

Weigh those two against each other because that is her assumption.
So I'm guessing there were some late rewrites where it's made explicit that one of the Enterprise heroes has nothing to apologize for.
Geordi says "I should have told you straight out" that is an apology unless you wanted him to admit that her baseless accusations are justified and everything she imagined is true and that he's an evil man.

They both admitted their faults and parted on good terms. Honestly your arguments as they read, border on misandry.
 
Kim is the same age as Wesley.

Kim wants to bang a holographic Windsurfing instructor in an early episode of Voyager, but he can't because it's wrong to bang the holograms.

There has been a tonal shift about holoethics in the Federation since Geordie went to school.

Tethics?
 
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Geordi literally never returned to the program, it was still paused at the end where he left it. The misadventure with the Enterprise computer AI cosplaying as Leah left him interested in the real person. He didn't do enough research to know she was married, gave it a shot, and life went on. This is entirely overblown. Geordi did nothing wrong.
 
That women were sexualized in the late 80s and early 90s?

Would you like me to post a Pic of Trois breasts?
Women were sexualized in media then. Women are sexualized in media now. I would say even more so. The idea that we've moved beyond that is ludicrous. It's what Hollywood has always done. It's what Hollywood still does.

But that wasn't what I was responding to. What I was responding to was your comment that the mindset of the time was that Leah should actually appreciate being sexualized and desired. That is what I said "citation needed" for.

The idea being painted in this thread that the 90's was some dystopian hellscape for women is just absurd.
 
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