"Bush Trek"

[HotRod]

The question of Bush aside for a moment, I never understood why the Xindi were so stupid to start a test run of their weapon on Earth, thereby warning their clueless enemies about them with huge red letters. It doesn't make an awful lot of sense, rendering the entire season 3 premise implausible, imo.

I think the best argument for why they did it that way is that the attack was essentially a test run. Earth was an unknown variable to them, so they wanted to see how effective the weapon was against the planet itself and how Earth's defenses would respond. They couldn't necessarily anticipate every variable involved in using the weapon against an unfamiliar world without actually testing it in the field.

If anything, the Xindi's mistake was underestimating what Earth would do once it knew it was under attack. They were confident enough in their technological superiority that they apparently didn't consider the possibility that this relatively primitive species would come looking for them.

And I have another huge issue with ENT season 3: The show was supposed to be a *prequel*. I don't want to see an entirely new major alien race as supervillain, one that was never a topic later in the timeline, in a prequel. I want to see how the world we know came into place -- exactly what they thankfully did in season 4.

I've never really understood this argument. A prequel doesn't mean everything has to be something we've already seen or heard about. The galaxy is huge, the fact that a species wasn't mentioned in another series doesn't mean they weren't there.

The Andorians and Tellarites are a perfect example. Both appeared in TOS, and both are founding members of the Federation, yet TNG and DS9 almost completely ignored them. We barely saw an Andorian in TNG, and I don't think either species appeared in DS9. Obviously, their absence from those shows doesn't mean they didn't exist. It just means we weren't seeing every corner of the galaxy. The Xindi are no different.

 

[Sim]

I think the best argument for why they did it that way is that the attack was essentially a test run. Earth was an unknown variable to them, so they wanted to see how effective the weapon was against the planet itself and how Earth's defenses would respond. They couldn't necessarily anticipate every variable involved in using the weapon against an unfamiliar world without actually testing it in the field.

If anything, the Xindi's mistake was underestimating what Earth would do once it knew it was under attack. They were confident enough in their technological superiority that they apparently didn't consider the possibility that this relatively primitive species would come looking for them.

That doesn't convince me. Especially since it was never brought up on screen. It seems too much like a retrospective justification for something the writers just overlooked.

I've never really understood this argument. A prequel doesn't mean everything has to be something we've already seen or heard about. The galaxy is huge, the fact that a species wasn't mentioned in another series doesn't mean they weren't there.

The Andorians and Tellarites are a perfect example. Both appeared in TOS, and both are founding members of the Federation, yet TNG and DS9 almost completely ignored them. We barely saw an Andorian in TNG, and I don't think either species appeared in DS9. Obviously, their absence from those shows doesn't mean they didn't exist. It just means we weren't seeing every corner of the galaxy. The Xindi are no different.

I'm not saying it's implausible within the logic of the Star Trek universe. I'm saying it doesn't satisfy me from a storytelling point of view.

There is no point in making a Star Trek prequel that is no real prequel, just as there would have been no point in making a prequel to the original Star Wars trilogy without mentioning Anakin Skywalker or explaning how he became Darth Vader.

 

[HotRod]

There is no point in making a Star Trek prequel that is no real prequel, just as there would have been no point in making a prequel to the original Star Wars trilogy without mentioning Anakin Skywalker or explaning how he became Darth Vader.

But Enterprise did exactly what a prequel is supposed to do. It showed humanity's early relationship with the Vulcans, first contacts with the Klingons, Andorians, Tellarites and Romulans, the beginnings of the Coalition/Federation, the early development of tech that would become commonplace, and the events leading toward the Romulan War.

A prequel doesn't have to limit itself to things we already know about. It can fill in the history while also exploring parts of the universe we've never seen. The fact that Enterprise introduced the Xindi doesn't somehow make it less of a prequel.

 

[Sim]

But Enterprise did exactly what a prequel is supposed to do. It showed humanity's early relationship with the Vulcans, first contacts with the Klingons, Andorians, Tellarites and Romulans, the beginnings of the Coalition/Federation, the early development of tech that would become commonplace, and the events leading toward the Romulan War.

A prequel doesn't have to limit itself to things we already know about. It can fill in the history while also exploring parts of the universe we've never seen. The fact that Enterprise introduced the Xindi doesn't somehow make it less of a prequel.

Yes, ENT did many things right, imo. I'm especially fond of season 4. But I also liked how they brought on Shran and the Andorians early on.

I was just explaning why I personally didn't like the Xindi arc in season 3. I would have preferred the show to be like season 4 much earlier on. Like it is, the show is more of a mixed bag, for my taste.

 

[korblborp]

i have wondered if the "xindi" were meant as a replacement for the "kzinti", only becasue the names are vaguely similar...

 

[FredH]

That doesn't convince me. Especially since it was never brought up on screen. It seems too much like a retrospective justification for something the writers just overlooked.

In all the years that Law & Order has been running, nobody’s ever mentioned the Ottoman Empire. You can’t convince me now that such a major power existed for more than six hundred years, and ended only 68 years before the show began!

 

[David cgc]

In all the years that Law & Order has been running, nobody’s ever mentioned the Ottoman Empire. You can’t convince me now that such a major power existed for more than six hundred years, and ended only 68 years before the show began!

I made that argument in this forum so many times when people tried to argue that it was conceptually impossible for the series "Enterprise" to be part of Star Trek at all, since if anything had happened in that time period, it would've been established in one of the other shows.

 

[FredH]

I made that argument in this forum so many times when people tried to argue that it was conceptually impossible for the series "Enterprise" to be part of Star Trek at all, since if anything had happened in that time period, it would've been established in one of the other shows.

Same here. I always circle back to it, because that argument always seems to come back…

 

[Sim]

In all the years that Law & Order has been running, nobody’s ever mentioned the Ottoman Empire. You can’t convince me now that such a major power existed for more than six hundred years, and ended only 68 years before the show began!

No need to go on a smartass routine. If you had read what I wrote, you'd know that your answer has no relation whatsoever to the point I made.

 

[FredH]

No need to go on a smartass routine. If you had read what I wrote, you'd know that your answer has no relation whatsoever to the point I made.

It’s an exact match; I respectfully suggest that you reread what you wrote.

 

[CorporalCaptain]

I agree that the the motivations for the Xindi attack on Earth were half-baked, not convincingly fleshed out by the writers. I didn't find the tropy backstory interesting or compelling. Beyond being a metaphor, the primary function of the attack was simply to motivate the quest for Archer and crew.

 

[korblborp]

i have always thought something like unknown alien aggressors attempting to turn florida into xanth by brute force is something that would have come up when earthicans are disscussing similar things.

 

[FredH]

i have always thought something like unknown alien aggressors attempting to turn florida into xanth by brute force is something that would have come up when earthicans are disscussing similar things.

Sure (if probably just offscreen, or during the commercial break). Although… which similar things?