Early Criticism: What’s Unfounded and What Isn’t

[fireproof78]

I do not remember them being around for very long. Skirts on a military like vessel outside a dress uniform seems stupid for any gender.

I also loved it when that captain told Troy to put some damn clothes on.

Troi and Captain Jellico.

Yes, she is a commissioned officer and should dress like it. Military ships in the US service have different uniforms of the day so a skirt might be included for business or dress purposes.

But, I also don't care what actors were so not sure why the uniform of the day matters, so long as I can tell their rank and division.

 

[Elaise]

Troi and Captain Jellico.

Yes, she is a commissioned officer and should dress like it. Military ships in the US service have different uniforms of the day so a skirt might be included for business or dress purposes.

But, I also don't care what actors were so not sure why the uniform of the day matters, so long as I can tell their rank and division.

Very true.

Though for me I think the later starfleet uniforms look good. (not the S1 TNG things) and at the end of the day its all about the look for me. The overt sexuaisation of the female characters would bring it down a notch.

 

[Fateor]

That said, I can understand criticism from the LGBTQ over Jay-Den’s portrayal. In my opinion, I wish Jay-Den behaved more like a typical Klingon who just happened to like dudes. Out and proud, likes to party hard. Trying to portray Jay-Den as also being an outcast that’s reserved feels too derivative of Worf IMO. When Tuvok was conceived the writers tried to find ways to differentiate him from Spock and I thought they succeeded at that.

That type of subtle differentiation takes time.

Academy with it's 10 episode season focusing mainly on Caleb, SAM, and Genesis didn't have time.

 

[F. King Daniel]

One or two episodes with background blink-and-you'll-miss-it characters (TNG) apparently constitutes a main character - front and center - designed by the writer(s) to grab attention (SA).

If you think it's inappropriate to wear a skirt, it doesn't matter if they show it on TV for five seconds or five hours. It's clearly depicted and thus allowed in-universe. Your belief about guys in skirts doesn't align with Starfleet and that's something you have to deal with.

Ask yourself why it was included in the first place for those few seconds: It was to show, within the limitations of TV and society at the time, that it was acceptable in Star Trek's world.

 

[Ragitsu]

Sorry: I understand words such as "context" and "outlier".

 

[tenmei]

Troi and Captain Jellico.

Yes, she is a commissioned officer and should dress like it. Military ships in the US service have different uniforms of the day so a skirt might be included for business or dress purposes.

But, I also don't care what actors were so not sure why the uniform of the day matters, so long as I can tell their rank and division.

But Troi was also the Counselor for a large civilian population, so I can see the logic of allowing her to not wear the uniform, and she can't be expected to change clothes every time Picard wants her to pop up and sense something. Of course, if she had a duty shift, but she didn't get signed off as Watch Officer until after the uniform enforcement by Jellico.

 

[Farscape One]

But Troi was also the Counselor for a large civilian population, so I can see the logic of allowing her to not wear the uniform, and she can't be expected to change clothes every time Picard wants her to pop up and sense something. Of course, if she had a duty shift, but she didn't get signed off as Watch Officer until after the uniform enforcement by Jellico.

When not on the bridge, I see the logic with the civilians, too.

But when on duty on the bridge, the uniform should be worn. Or on duty, period. Remember, she was a Lt. Commander from the pilot to "Thine Own Self"... that's 6 and a half years. Lt. Commander is not a low rank, either, and they have their own set of responsibilities that requires them to be on duty to perform them.

For another example of a Starfleet counselor among the leads: Ezri Dax. When on duty, she was always wearing her uniform. It took the middle of season 6 to finally get Troi to stay in uniform. (She wore it in the pilot.)

 

[SatrianiRules]

She (Troi)) also became more "Starfleet" after "chain of command", meaning she worked for a promotion, did more interaction with crew other than "Let's talk about your feelings".... was undercover as a Romulan etc...
it makes sense, every episode you can't have her simply doing therapy sessions with patients talking about feelings, that got boring pretty quickly.

 

[Farscape One]

She (Troi)) also became more "Starfleet" after "chain of command", meaning she worked for a promotion, did more interaction with crew other than "Let's talk about your feelings".... was undercover as a Romulan etc...
it makes sense, every episode you can't have her simply doing therapy sessions with patients talking about feelings, that got boring pretty quickly.

Yeah, the shrink sessions got old fast with her. It actually dates TNG more than anything else about the show. Troi was far better as a character when she was not used in that way.

 

[F. King Daniel]

Sorry: I understand words such as "context" and "outlier".

Assumption 1: You don't like it, it offends your masculinity.

Assumption 2: You can ignore short clips from TNG, because you were raised with it and did not come to it with your adult prejudices installed.

You choose not to think about how the in-universe implications and ideologies behind it's inclusion clash with your beliefs.

Man wear skirt. Get over it.

 

[SatrianiRules]

Yeah, the shrink sessions got old fast with her. It actually dates TNG more than anything else about the show. Troi was far better as a character when she was not used in that way.

I'd say that her character arc was the most dramatic from the start of the series to the end...in season one she was a hyper emotional cheerleader, essentially, and by the end of the series she was a legit starfleet officer with a sense of humor, and the Captain's confidant.

 

[Detached Nacelle]

Guys in glass closets shouldn't throw stones.

 

[SpockOfNine]

How long did they last.

Not long because they were ugly. The skirts on women also disappeared quickly. If they were as nice as the skirts in Academy, they would have hung around a lot longer.

One or two episodes with background blink-and-you'll-miss-it characters (TNG) apparently constitutes a main character - front and center - designed by the writer(s) to grab attention (SA).

Except Jayden was the least commonly used & seen main cast member, besides Tarmia.

 

[seti alpha]

Except Jayden was the least commonly used & seen main cast member, besides Tarmia.

Genesis wishes she got her own backstory episode like Jay-Den.

SAM ended up with more on-screen backstory and she was 2 months old!

 

[Fateor]

Yeah... They really messed up with the first two episodes.

They should have done things similar to how Fallout did with having a 10-20 minute "leaving home introduction" for each of the main cadets to give us an idea of who they actually were. Then they could have had episode 2 be the "form the group" episode that was the second half of episode 1.

 

[F. King Daniel]

Yeah... They really messed up with the first two episodes.

They should have done things similar to how Fallout did with having a 10-20 minute "leaving home introduction" for each of the main cadets to give us an idea of who they actually were. Then they could have had episode 2 be the "form the group" episode that was the second half of episode 1.

This is a good point. I was certain after episode one we'd be getting those "leaving home" flashbacks for some of the others during the season but other than Jay-Den's family problems... it never happened.

 

[Laura Cynthia Chambers]

The difference here is that all these cadets are starting their Starfleet (schooling) career at the same time, and they make up most of the characters. Those adult characters with longer careers were either not the focus, or were someone we knew something about prior to the show.

Every other show had characters whose careers had gaps in them we didn't know about until they were revealed over time, and there was plenty of episodes and room to fill in the details of their lives prior to Starfleet or their current posting a bit at a time - a throwaway gag here, a former colleague or foe there. One character a green ensign, another a captain with years of experience, and various lieutenants/commanders with former postings.

 

[Fateor]

This is a good point. I was certain after episode one we'd be getting those "leaving home" flashbacks for some of the others during the season but other than Jay-Den's family problems... it never happened.

It also would have given them a chance to plant "mystery seeds" around each of the cadets stories to help better hook viewers.

The difference here is that all these cadets are starting their Starfleet (schooling) career at the same time, and they make up most of the characters. Those adult characters with longer careers were either not the focus, or were someone we knew something about prior to the show.

Every other show had characters whose careers had gaps in them we didn't know about until they were revealed over time, and there was plenty of episodes and room to fill in the details of their lives prior to Starfleet or their current posting a bit at a time - a throwaway gag here, a former colleague or foe there. One character a green ensign, another a captain with years of experience, and various lieutenants/commanders with former postings.

Their big mistake there was trying to go the same Serial/Episodic hybrid route as Enterprise.

Only that doesn't work with low episode count shows.

 

[flyerdog]

But Troi was also the Counselor for a large civilian population, so I can see the logic of allowing her to not wear the uniform, and she can't be expected to change clothes every time Picard wants her to pop up and sense something. Of course, if she had a duty shift, but she didn't get signed off as Watch Officer until after the uniform enforcement by Jellico.

I LOVED the way the transition was made: Jellico:

"I prefer a certain formality from my officers, I'd appreciate it if you wore standard uniform while on duty..."

If Troi hadn't had the audacity to question his methods of crew interaction , he might never have even made that request...it was another total passive /aggressive move that really encapsulated the character of Jellico...

 

[Mudd]

Jellico was an asshole.

No offense intended to Ronny Cox, who played a number of assholes brilliantly...