So What Are you Reading?: Generations

[Christopher]

I took the position that all fiction is genre fiction, because contemporary realism, historical realism, magical realism, and so forth are themselves genres, and because if an opus somehow manages the rare achievement of failing to fit into any existing genre, then it simply becomes the holotype for a new genre.

I'm fond of the argument that mainstream fiction is just a subset of speculative fiction, limiting itself to an approximation of our world in the present or recent past. I mean, even mainstream fiction has speculative elements, imagining people, places, and events that don't exist. The West Wing, for example, posited several imaginary US Presidents, invented imaginary countries, and offset the presidential election cycle from real life by two years. What is that if not alternate-world speculative fiction?

And most any mainstream action movie will have all sorts of physical impossibilities or improbabilities, like people being blown through the air by gunshots without the shooters feeling an equal and opposite reaction, or being blown through the air by explosions and walking away instead of being instantly killed by the concussive shock and shrapnel, or suffering repeated knockout blows to the head without suffering concussion, or getting shot in the shoulder without any significant impairment to their range of motion, etc. A lot of it is pure fantasy, as much as it would be if the action hero whipped out a magic wand or turned out to be half-elf. Plenty of fiction set in the "real world" is considerably more fanciful than a hard science fiction novel set on an alien world in the distant future but sticking faithfully to known physical law.

 

[Smiley]

Y'all, I'm highly impressed with Shatner and Kreski's Star Trek Movie Memories. Obviously, there will be some overlap with material from the DVD/Blu-ray releases and other behind the scenes books, since the actual events remain the same. Still, there are stories I have not heard, and Shatner brings his unique perspectives and storytelling style. Reading through the sections on TAS, the canceled Phase II, and the first five movies, there is an analysis of what worked and what didn't that is much more balanced than I would have expected. There are some great insights and excerpts from Shatner's conversations with people like Nimoy, Harve Bennett, Nicholas Meyer, Robert Wise, and even Richard Arnold. I'd recommend it on the same level as the TNG Companion and the Justman/Solow Making of Star Trek.

 

[Allyn Gibson]

I mean, even mainstream fiction has speculative elements, imagining people, places, and events that don't exist. The West Wing, for example, posited several imaginary US Presidents, invented imaginary countries, and offset the presidential election cycle from real life by two years. What is that if not alternate-world speculative fiction?

Speaking of The West Wing not matching up with our reality, let's talk about the death of Mrs. Landingham.

She dies at 16th and Potomac when she's struck by a drunk driver. 16th and Potomac is in Southeast, right outside the gate of Congressional Cemetery. I've walked through that intersection a number of times; I have family buried at Congressional. Those are residential streets, and I truly struggle to see how she could be killed in her car by a drunk driver at that intersection.

My guess is that Aaron Sorkin saw that the White House is at 16th and F Northwest, and not understanding the L'Enfant Plan assumed that 16th and Potomac would be somewhere near the White House. So, maybe in The West Wing's universe, the L'Enfant Plan for the city is different, and there is a Potomac Avenue in Northwest. (It is kinda weird that Potomac Avenue runs, more or less, along the Anacostia River. Yes, it had been known as the Eastern Branch of the Potomac River, but not for at least a century when L'Enfant drew up his plans.) Which could also mean that the National Cathedral is where L'Enfant intended it, east of the White House, and not out Georgetown way.

 

[hbquikcomjamesl]

Those are residential streets, and I truly struggle to see how she could be killed in her car by a drunk driver at that intersection.

Perhaps the drunk driver was too far gone to know (or care) that he was on a residential street.

Plenty of fiction set in the "real world" is considerably more fanciful than a hard science fiction novel set on an alien world in the distant future but sticking faithfully to known physical law.

Indeed. And it is probably in large part from reading science fiction (and also from reading impeccably researched children's novels, including one that could practically be used as a guide to finding one's way around Colonial Williamsburg) that while my novel-in-progress and my other "organ princess" stories frequently push the edges of what's physically or economically possible, they generally don't cross those edges.

Still not quite halfway through Lessons in Chemistry, and I occasionally spot quite a bit that's extremely implausible. And I don't mean how the dog thinks in English, and when his vocal apparatus is inadequate to the task of making his thoughts known, he leaves a book open to a page that expresses them. That, at least, serves a story point. I mean at least one throwaway bit that's so poorly researched that it stands out as an obvious case of Garmus not having a clue what she's talking about.

 

[I am not Herbert]

I've never understood what others see in Wuthering Heights. Or Pride and Prejudice. Both of them were required reading when I took high school lit, as I recall.

Pride and Prejudice is excellent-- insightful, psychologically acute, actually funny, even to a 21st century reader-- as are most things Austen wrote. (Persuasion and Emma being my favorites). Wuthering Heights, though loved by many, is a completely different kind of book.

 

[hbquikcomjamesl]

I do, now that you mention it, remember that Pride and Prejudice was not nearly the onorous slog that I found Wuthering Heights to be. But it still didn't do much for me.

Then again, most prime time TV doesn't do much for me, either. Especially sitcoms. Too many shallow, petty, greedy people. I get enough of that in real life (apologies to "Reverend" Jim Ignatowski in the Taxi episode involving a Pac-Man arcade game). Never liked Seinfeld. And as for Curb Your Enthusiasm, I had none to curb.

 

[Smiley]

Has anyone read the book Return to Tomorrow by Preston Neal Jones about the making of TMP? If so, what did you think of it?

 

[Christopher]

Has anyone read the book Return to Tomorrow by Preston Neal Jones about the making of TMP? If so, what did you think of it?

It's very thorough and detailed, but so much so that I haven't found time to reread it since the first time. It would've benefitted from pictures, but that would've made it even more of a brick. And I only just now figured out why it (probably) has that title -- because TMP was the return to the "tomorrow" (future) of the Trek universe.

 

[bdub76]

On the topic of genre fiction, I feel like it exists, so that the marketing folks have a specific place to put a book on a bookshelf in a bookstore. What bothers me is that even though an author can write across multiple genre, they'll still put them all in one section. No idea why Stephen King's 11/22/1963 is in horror.

At lunch today, I finished Jigsaw Man by Larry Niven. This could easily be made into a Twilight Zone episode or an Outer Limits one. I guess, for today's audience, maybe a Black Mirror episode.

I'm more than half way through Wuthering Heights. This book gets dark quick.

Concerning Lessons in Chemistry, that book quickly reaches a point, where it's very, very difficult to maintain your suspension of disbelief.

 

[hbquikcomjamesl]

And I only just now figured out why it (probably) has that title -- because TMP was the return to the "tomorrow" (future) of the Trek universe.

And of course it's a play on the episode wherein we met Sargon. Why have a title that only means one thing, when you can have one that's a double (or mutiple) entendre?

Concerning Lessons in Chemistry, that book quickly reaches a point, where it's very, very difficult to maintain your suspension of disbelief.

I can play along with the dog. And the absurdism. And the absurdism with the dog (I've known plenty of cats who are [or were] really just little people with fur and fangs). It's the occasional bits of author cluelessness (there are a couple big obvious ones in the transformation of the kitchen into a working chemistry lab) that throw me out of what Tolkien preferred to call "literary belief."

 

[Christopher]

And of course it's a play on the episode wherein we met Sargon.

Well, yes, that part goes without saying. I was asking the next question beyond that one, namely, why would they name a TMP book after an episode it had no connection to?

 

[hbquikcomjamesl]

why would they name a TMP book after an episode it had no connection to?

And why would they pass up an opportunity for wordplay? (I've been known to jump on straight lines that even Groucho would have left alone.)

Then again, the title fits the book better than it ever did the episode.

Having looked it up on Amazon, I've come to the conclusion that (a) I don't have it, and (b) at the current going price ($135 and up for a paperback?!?), I never will.

 

[Smiley]

It's $10 as a Kindle book, which is why I'm even considering it. For over $100, I would also bail.

 

[JD]

At lunch today, I finished Jigsaw Man by Larry Niven. This could easily be made into a Twilight Zone episode or an Outer Limits one. I guess, for today's audience, maybe a Black Mirror episode.

Does Black Mirror adapt preexisting stories? I know The Twilight Zone and The Outer Limits did, but I'm not very familiar with Black Mirror.

 

[bdub76]

Does Black Mirror adapt preexisting stories? I know The Twilight Zone and The Outer Limits did, but I'm not very familiar with Black Mirror.

No idea.

But for short stories like this one, anthology TV series are your way to go. And I'm not aware of others running science fiction at the moment. I do miss these types of shows since every episode is something different.

 

[JD]

Yeah, it's a shame Jordan Peele's Twilight Zone ended up not working out, it sounded like a great idea. Nope and Get Out really felt like stories that could have been Twilight Zone episodes, so Peele taking on the Twilight Zone had a ton of potential. I never got a chance to watch it, but I know the reaction to it wasn't that great.

 

[bdub76]

Yeah, it's a shame Jordan Peele's Twilight Zone ended up not working out, it sounded like a great idea. Nope and Get Out really felt like stories that could have been Twilight Zone episodes, so Peele taking on the Twilight Zone had a ton of potential. I never got a chance to watch it, but I know the reaction to it wasn't that great.

I haven't seen it.

But I would like a series that would adapt modern science fiction writers stories.

 

[hbquikcomjamesl]

Now past the halfway point of Lessons in Chemistry. I cannot avoid the conclusion that Garmus very intentionally put the debut of the cooking show (referenced in Chapter 1) just after the midpoint.

And it still reads like a cross between John Irving and Erma Bombeck, with a twist of Douglas Adams thrown in for seasoning.

And it's best in small doses.

 

[JD]

I decided yesterday that I was in a comic book and Star Trek mood, so I'm taking a short break from Twelve Months for some Trek comics. I started off with DS9: Too (something, I'm having a brain fart and it's not coming up on my Goodread and Hoopla won't load) written by the Tipton brothers with art by someone. I really enjoyed, the whole mystery was interesting, and I liked the guest characters. The art was pretty good, I definitely liked it better than the art for IDW's first DS9 miniseries.
I'm a little disappointed we don't seem to be getting Trek comics from the Tiptons anymore, I've liked pretty much everything I've read that the wrote. I would have much rather seen them get at least one or two ongoing series, instead of Lanzing & Kelly, who's writing I really don't like.
Once I finished that up, I started TNG: Ghosts, which is written by Zander Cannon, with art by Javier Aranda.

 

[Stevil2001]

I'm fond of the argument that mainstream fiction is just a subset of speculative fiction, limiting itself to an approximation of our world in the present or recent past. I mean, even mainstream fiction has speculative elements, imagining people, places, and events that don't exist. The West Wing, for example, posited several imaginary US Presidents, invented imaginary countries, and offset the presidential election cycle from real life by two years. What is that if not alternate-world speculative fiction?

And most any mainstream action movie will have all sorts of physical impossibilities or improbabilities, like people being blown through the air by gunshots without the shooters feeling an equal and opposite reaction, or being blown through the air by explosions and walking away instead of being instantly killed by the concussive shock and shrapnel, or suffering repeated knockout blows to the head without suffering concussion, or getting shot in the shoulder without any significant impairment to their range of motion, etc. A lot of it is pure fantasy, as much as it would be if the action hero whipped out a magic wand or turned out to be half-elf. Plenty of fiction set in the "real world" is considerably more fanciful than a hard science fiction novel set on an alien world in the distant future but sticking faithfully to known physical law.

I think those are all fundamentally different things. I think sf and fantasy ask their readers to do very different things to other sorts of fiction.

I do, now that you mention it, remember that Pride and Prejudice was not nearly the onorous slog that I found Wuthering Heights to be. But it still didn't do much for me.

Then again, most prime time TV doesn't do much for me, either. Especially sitcoms. Too many shallow, petty, greedy people. I get enough of that in real life (apologies to "Reverend" Jim Ignatowski in the Taxi episode involving a Pac-Man arcade game). Never liked Seinfeld. And as for Curb Your Enthusiasm, I had none to curb.

James, I don't know why every time someone brings up something "popular" you haven't experienced or don't like, you have to bring up all the other "popular" things you haven't experienced or don't like. I feel like not liking Pride and Prejudice has very little to do with not liking sitcoms.

Also your sense of what is "popular" is getting increasingly dated. Seinfeld ended thirty years ago; not watching Seinfeld is the default orientation for 99% of people.

Has anyone read the book Return to Tomorrow by Preston Neal Jones about the making of TMP? If so, what did you think of it?

If you like that kind of thing (exhaustively detailed making-ofs), it's about as good an example of it as you can find. Do you find knowing how people made bridge graphics interesting? Because you'll find out! I really liked it; review on my blog at https://lessaccurategrandmother.blogspot.com/2015/10/review-return-to-tomorrow-filming-of.html.