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Paramount+ 60th Anniversary Intro

Luckily you are wrong here - corporations can NOT just take fan-art and make money off it.

Then please tell me why Marc Bell is not suing CBS/Paramount for using his models without his permission.

That's why we hear some of these "feel-good"-stories where companies reach out to creators of popular fan art & hire them (e.g. how Picard season 3 reached out to Bill Krause to use his fan design for the actual USS Titan-A/Ent-G.

The ‘feel-good’ stories you are referring to are because the company is playing nice, even though they are not obligated to do so. If I build a CGI model of the USS Enterprise, I own the model, but I don’t own the design. I can’t do anything with my model other than having the satisfaction of building it. I can’t legally sell it and make a profit on it because the design is someone else’s IP. And if CBS found my model and wanted to use it, they are under no obligation to ask me for my permission, although it would make me ‘feel good’ if they did.
 
I doubt Paramount would ever use the Ares, not because AP “owns” it in some labyrinthine legal way, but strictly due to the stigma surrounding the associated Axanar project for the past 12 years. Nothing more than that. I honestly don’t even see a reason to even engage in hypotheticals about that dumpster fire.
 
I doubt Paramount would ever use the Ares, not because AP “owns” it in some labyrinthine legal way…

But does he own it? That’s what I keep asking. It is an asset created for a fan film, which CBS/Paramount control the guidelines for.
 
Did somebody copyright a Star Trek script that wasn’t CBS/Paramount?

Yes, definitionally, anyone who writes a Star Trek script ever has copyrighted it, fanfic or official. Under American copyright law (let's not worry about international variations for the moment), any work that can be protected by copyright is protected by copyright by the act of being created. Formal registration is not required, but it does help if there's a dispute between two people who both claim to have created a given item.

That's why there's a rule in places where professional writers congregate (such as the Literature forum on the TrekBBS) to not share fan-fic or even post story ideas or concepts, because if something similar is used, even coincidentally, in an official product, it's an opening for legal action. Like, let's say I post that Star Trek 14 should have Khan and Kirk fight on the side of a volcano with laser swords, and Khan falls in, and has to wear a special spacesuit that keeps him alive and starts calling himself the Dark Invader, and then there's a subsequent Trek novel by an author who posts here with a swordfight on a volcano, it would open CBS/Paramount up to legal action on my part, even though my idea is ridiculous, stupid, and blatantly derivative. Even if I couldn't win, I could make myself a nuisance.

No, the design is not his. What he is identifying is his built quality.
Like if my carpenter friend makes a really good version of an IKEA furniture on its own, that's indistinguishable except for scratch marks, screw positions etc, and then that somehow ends up in an official IKEA commercial - there's literally nothing he can do - expect if course post on Instagram and say "look, I did that!"

That's not a great analogy. For one thing, designs can't be copyrighted. That's why high-end fashion brands have a habit of using their logos as a decorative element; you can't copyright the shape or materials of a purse, but covering it in the copyrighted (technically, trademarked) interlocking-C logo of Chanel gives you something that you can defend in court. So in this case, the illegal aspect would be using photographs presumably taken by your friend that weren't licensed by Ikea or their ad agency without securing a license to those images (whether or not the furniture looks like an existing Ikea piece or not doesn't matter), as well as false advertising and misrepresentation by showing furniture they don't sell in an ad, even if it appears similar to their own products.

The fact that designs can't be copyrighted is also why the whole concept of "Marc Bell stole from CBS/Paramount, so CBS/Paramount is stealing right back and two wrongs make a right" is incorrect. Arguing over how Bell's model is too Enterprise-shaped for him to have ownership rights but Bill Krauss's Shangri-La and Sean Tourangeau's Ares are different enough from the official products that they should have creative rights to them is a red herring. The shape and design are totally irrelevant legally, it's the actual object that's in question, in this case, the specific configuration of pixels, points, and polygons created by Marc Bell in the form of the CG model and textures.

Just to draw out the implications of this, that means that a VFX studio using Bell's TOS Enterprise model is a copyright infringement against him even though CBS/Paramount, who commissioned the animation, owns the original creative products which that design was developed for and used within, and it would also be a violation if the same company somehow got their hands on Tobias Richter's CG model of the Ares and used that without a license, but it would not be an infringement against anyone if CBS/Paramount (or their agents) built their own model off of Tourangeau's design for the Ares, unless they called it the Ares, because that (the name combined with the visual design) would be an infringement on Peters' scripts for his Axanar stories, or they used Tourangeau's actual drawings on a computer screen or something (which happened early on in DSC when a specific version of the UFP logo drawn by Franz Joseph was used in an episode).

Then please tell me why Marc Bell is not suing CBS/Paramount for using his models without his permission.

Lawsuits are expensive and he hasn't judged the potential remedy as worth the time and trouble of retaining and lawyer and beginning a formal proceeding. Lots of people don't sue (or even report crimes) when they've been wronged for the same reason.

Stealing fan-art for official products is not uncommon, and part of the reason is, well, who's going to go up against CBS/Paramount or the Walt Disney Company or whoever even with a slam-dunk case for a few thousand dollars, at most? I can name a half-dozen other times where this has happened—occasionally to artists with existing relationships with the IP holder that have worked with them before (I think Ansel Hsiao is still underwater on his work appearing in Star Wars products that he was paid for versus where it was used without permission). Even if they're getting paid for a job, people are frequently lazy or misinformed and think that just because something is on-line that means it can be used freely. Sometimes the artist whose work is appropriated points it out and gets a credit, or compensation, or the infringing content is pulled, most of the time it doesn't go anywhere. That's life in the age of the ultra-corporation.

(I'm not sure why writers are so much more strict about potential IP infringement than visual and motion artists; perhaps the existence of strong unions and guilds which give them a vested interest in aggressive copyright enforcement, even when it might be frivolously turned against them.)

All the stuff about designs versus works and what's protected IP and what isn't is probably too esoteric for most people, if I was going to explain why what happened was wrong, I'd stick with the fraud angle; a company was contracted and paid for to produce this animated intro, and they represented work they didn't do (or pay to have done) as their own and made money from it. The idea that Paramount or their contractor can just take anything they find that's Star Trek related and sell it leads to the implication that they don't have to, perhaps even can't, pay anyone to make Star Trek content for them, which is absurd. That's the fundamental argument, that since they already own the Enterprise-shape, they don't have to compensate someone who makes something Enterprise-shaped (at their instigation or not), since they automatically fully own any subsequent derivative works.

Personally, part of the reason I followed Chris Kuhn's example and put my fan-models up with a public domain declaration is that even if I have IP rights to them, I don't want to have to care about even the possibility of enforcing them. While I'm potentially leaving money and prestige on the table by not aggressively pursuing compensation, I don't want the grief, and would rather encourage myself to experience an uncomplicated flash of delight at seeing, say, that BlueBrixx used some of my Stargate work as reference on one of their little Lego-alikes (even my actual reaction is a brief flash of annoyance at not having been asked or informed).
 
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(I think Ansel Hsiao is still underwater on his work appearing in Star Wars products that he was paid for versus where it was used without permission)
And even before Disney owned LucasFilm, one of the CG trailers for The Force Unleashed used his Star Destroyer model without permission. IIRC that is why he no longer has public links to his 3D model files.

So now they just take the renders he makes himself lol
 
But does he own it? That’s what I keep asking. It is an asset created for a fan film, which CBS/Paramount control the guidelines for.

Then there's the curious case of the Franz Joseph TOS Tech Manual designs. According to the STO devs, CBS has said they're completely off limits, which is why none of them have ever appeared in the game.

Then there's Picard Season 2 (or was it 3?), where there was quite clearly a TOS Dreadnaught model on screen, but Dave Blass kept insisting it wasn't.

There must be something between CBS/Paramount and the Franz Joseph estate that makes those quite clearly derivative/kitbash designs off limits.
 
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Then there's the curious case of the Franz Joseph TOS Tech Manual designs. According to the STO devs, CBS has said they're completely off limits, which is why none of them have ever appeared in the game.

Then there's Picard Season 2 (or was it 3?), where there was quite clearly a TOS Dreadnaught model on screen, but Dave Blass kept insisting it wasn't.

There must be something between CBS/Paramount and the Franz Joseph estate that makes those quite clearly derivative/kitbash designs off limits.

I know all about the issue with using designs that Franz Joseph’s estate owns. In a nutshell, FJ owns the rights to the designs from his tech manual, not CBS/Paramount. They (or anyone for that matter) needs permission from FJ’s estate to use the designs. Blass quite obviously tried to sneak in those small models that were clearly meant to be the FJ dreadnought, without permission. Now if he had made them look like a TMP refit version, he would have been fine because even though the components would be in the same location, it’s not the same design. That’s why Boris Vallejo’s cover art for the “Dreadnought!” novel shows a unique design for the ship even though the components are in the same place.

Now Doug Drexler used the FJ tugs for one of the calendars, and I’m assuming he got permission to use them, because I don’t know how he could have gotten away with that otherwise.
 
But does he own it? That’s what I keep asking. It is an asset created for a fan film, which CBS/Paramount control the guidelines for.
I worded that poorly. He probably owns it to a degree, but only up until the suits at Paramount decide to take it, citing IP ownership, if they actually wanted to. I just don’t think they would do it due to the negative press attached to the whole affair.
 
That's not a great analogy. For one thing, designs can't be copyrighted. [Highlight by me]. That's why high-end fashion brands have a habit of using their logos as a decorative element; you can't copyright the shape or materials of a purse, but covering it in the copyrighted (technically, trademarked) interlocking-C logo of Chanel gives you something that you can defend in court. So in this case, the illegal aspect would be using photographs presumably taken by your friend that weren't licensed by Ikea or their ad agency without securing a license to those images (whether or not the furniture looks like an existing Ikea piece or not doesn't matter), as well as false advertising and misrepresentation by showing furniture they don't sell in an ad, even if it appears similar to their own products.

The fact that designs can't be copyrighted is also why the whole concept of "Marc Bell stole from CBS/Paramount, so CBS/Paramount is stealing right back and two wrongs make a right" is incorrect. Arguing over how Bell's model is too Enterprise-shaped for him to have ownership rights but Bill Krauss's Shangri-La and Sean Tourangeau's Ares are different enough from the official products that they should have creative rights to them is a red herring. The shape and design are totally irrelevant legally, it's the actual object that's in question, in this case, the specific configuration of pixels, points, and polygons created by Marc Bell in the form of the CG model and textures.

Just to draw out the implications of this, that means that a VFX studio using Bell's TOS Enterprise model is a copyright infringement against him even though CBS/Paramount, who commissioned the animation, owns the original creative products which that design was developed for and used within, and it would also be a violation if the same company somehow got their hands on Tobias Richter's CG model of the Ares and used that without a license, but it would not be an infringement against anyone if CBS/Paramount (or their agents) built their own model off of Tourangeau's design for the Ares, unless they called it the Ares, because that (the name combined with the visual design) would be an infringement on Peters' scripts for his Axanar stories, or they used Tourangeau's actual drawings on a computer screen or something (which happened early on in DSC when a specific version of the UFP logo drawn by Franz Joseph was used in an episode)

Errm... what?
Of fucking course Designs can be copyrighted...
 
Errm... what?
Of fucking course Designs can be copyrighted...

If you read through that law, you might notice some curiously specific language in the second line about decks and plugs. If you did a second round of googling for more details, rather than immediately posting the first link you saw after searching “design copyright,” you’d see that chapter 13 is specifically about and limited to the design of boat and ship hulls. Real ships, that float in water, not imaginary space ships.


 
Yes, definitionally, anyone who writes a Star Trek script ever has copyrighted it, fanfic or official. Under American copyright law (let's not worry about international variations for the moment), any work that can be protected by copyright is protected by copyright by the act of being created. Formal registration is not required, but it does help if there's a dispute between two people who both claim to have created a given item.

I have never heard of this before. That sounds like complete nonsense to me, but if you can show me the law that states this, I'll concede.
 
Then there's the curious case of the Franz Joseph TOS Tech Manual designs. According to the STO devs, CBS has said they're completely off limits, which is why none of them have ever appeared in the game.

Then there's Picard Season 2 (or was it 3?), where there was quite clearly a TOS Dreadnaught model on screen, but Dave Blass kept insisting it wasn't.

There must be something between CBS/Paramount and the Franz Joseph estate that makes those quite clearly derivative/kitbash designs off limits.
You would be thinking of PIC 3.01 featuring Guinan's bar without Guinan.
 
I’m pretty sure that’s correct.


I'm pretty sure that still doesn't apply when I make a CGI model of the Enterprise, whose design is already copyrighted by CBS/Paramount, and they use it in their show without my permission. I can't sue them even though it's my model, because I don't own the design.

And if I write a Star Trek script, I don't own the characters I use. So how does that work?
 
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