To be fair, I think only M'Benga actually says it and the show portrayed him as having tons of issues, to put it mildly, so maybe there's wiggle room here...
Could Star Trek V been saved?
- Thread starter tim0122
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Someday the term flagship will be used correctly in Star Trek.
In fairness, they are using the term the way most companies use it today in real life.
He did. And Fontana hated "small galaxy syndrome", as per this 1967-06-30 Fontana-penned memo about Sturgeon's "He Walked Among Us":
Can you repost this on my thread here? (I'd do it but I was the last poster on the thread over a month ago.)
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The curse(?) of small universe syndrome
"Small universe syndrome" has been discussed before many times, but what are the benefits/reasons and the drawbacks for doing so? Positives: * It gives an episode personal stakes which complicate the issue - having to choose between someone you know/like and what's right, needing to succeed so...
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I think it works as a one-off because that makes it a coincidence. And it helps with the audience, especially back then, to have someone who knew Khan and could fill people in. Even though the person they picked wasn't there, which moots the point.
Made sense in context of the movies. Assuming the Vulcan only has one Federation Ambassador, or a go-to, Sarek works.
Once in a fantasy in "Shore Leave" is fine, and once as a story point works, after that, it's stretching it. He had, I think, three live ex's show up in the series and one in the movies. But if we stuck to realism, we'd never have had Bibi Besch and that would have been a genuine shame.
Made sense in context of the episode - Spock went back home to see her.
Never saw her. Never mentioned either. In fact, if you go by only the aired live action episodes, you'd never know McCoy was ever married or had a kid. The first mention of a daughter at all was in TAS "The Survivor." Unless you mean the tie-in media but I'm assuming you're not because:
Not sure "makes sense in the context of the episode" is quite the out you think it is.
Our heroes are consistently running in to exes, relatives, mentors and others in the oddest places.
Well, you either get an expository conversation where we learn of a pre-existing relationship, or a montage showing a developing one over time, or a forever-love-at-first-sight-until-something-happens-to-end-it story.
Areel Shaw.
Ruth.
Carol Marcus.
I guess my terminology was poor but Nancy Crater was an ex crush at least.
Again, my bad on poor terminology. Someone Spock knew and had a crush on him.
Was referring to Journey to Babel. Again, my bad for being brief and glib.
Pretty sure I did. Where I got jumbled was Spock and T'Pring, who wasn't actually an ex. But meeting her was still justified because the entire story was about him going home to meet her.
No worries, I'll meet you halfway as I totally forgot her, I thought you meant McCoy's ex-wife.
This is where I think I lost @Santa Kang
Again, meeting you halfway. This Side of Paradise slipped my mind. I don't even know of Leila was anything at all to Spock legitimately, but they did know each other before. It counts.
Even so, if Sarek was the Vulcan ambassador to the Federation, we already knew Spock's dad had an Ambassador position. They specifically went to Vulcan to pick up the Ambassador. The odds are pretty good that Sarek would be the guy. Nobody in the family seemed even slightly surprised at the situation.
I agreed with you in regards to Kirk and his ex's. Running into people within the same organization like starfleet is much more easily explained away than running into an ex or the same Klingon. Kirk and Ron Tracey or Matt Decker could be in same quadrant or region. Kor is from a different government altogether. The odds of Kirk and Kor running into each other more than once is a push. And it's not like Kirk ran into Ron Tracey a few times, Decker two times and whatnot. The only returnee was Harry Mudd and it was a comedy so I guess who cares?
A character running into someone we never met before isn't Small Universe Syndrome. Running in to the same people repeatedly, or being related to a bunch of already introduced characters is. Like "hey another member of the Soong family!"
Putting aside my myriad problems with STTFF ...
I always thought that Kirk should have said "I got him back ... got him back twice."
Just to acknowledge both Spock and McCoy.
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Each of those "many" would be special people, especially if we are only counting captains of what may be lead ships in groups spread about a week's travel apart see what I wrote below).
Aren't McCoy's ex-wife-the mother of his daughter, and Nancy Crater the same person? The show does not say they were married, but when TAS said he had a daughter, it would make sense, that assuming he had been married, Nancy Crater would be the person he'd have been married to.
In other places I have suggested that perhaps there are small fleets of around four ships that operate in a Quadrant (this being a 4th of a sector not a 4th of the whole Galaxy), and that perhaps each fleet uses ships with 3-4 different roles such as depicted in the FJSTM. Thus Kirk might know John Daly of the Astral Queen because the Astral Queen is the transport ship in the small fleet of which the Enterprise, being a cruiser, is the lead ship.
As such, Matt Decker, Ron Tracy, and Bob Wesley, and the captain of the Defiant, are a kind of "neighbors," being the commanders of lead ships in the nearby quadrants. Kirk might at least vaguely know around 16 captains--commanders of the cruiser, and/or cargo carrier, tanker, surveyor and scout in each of the nearby quadrants.
If there was a war, these would be the people he'd be working closely with the create a defense perimiter or intimidate the enemy.
In the case of the Defiant, if its number of 1764 is to be accepted, it might even be that that ship is newer but not meant for front line duty, is not a cruiser and looks externally like the Enterprise, despite serving in a different way.
No, Nancy was an old girlfriend. Kirk says that specifically. The general idea was that McCoy's marriage was an unhappy one. He was nervous but otherwise more than happy to see Nancy. No mention of a daughter in The Man Trap either.
Would Kirk have know yet that McCoy was married? Where does the story that the marriage was unhappy while it lasted come from? The book series or the unused early drafts of "The Way to Eden"?
I believe Dorothy Fontana's interviews about her original story dictate that. @Maurice would be the authority.
There's absolutely no hint in The Man Trap of marriage between McCoy and Nancy. No discussion of it between McCoy and Nancy or the Nancy Creature. No comment about it by Professor Crater. No mention of it from McCoy to Kirk. If we were meant to believe Nancy and McCoy were previously married, it would have been in the episode. Instead, we were specifically told by Kirk that she was an old girlfriend. There's no shade of gray here.
Assuming at this point in the series, Roddenberry et al had McCoy's history worked out, why wouldn't he? They have enough of a personal relationship for McCoy to get away with sassing Kirk more than anyone else does. He knew McCoy and Nancy dated, why would McCoy not tell him they were married if they had been? There's nothing stopping Nancy or her husband from saying anything.
Much like the fact that Joachim is not stated to be Khan's son, it takes my reading on this thread to notice the number of times they might have said she was his wife and not done so. The professors comments toward McCoy that seemed to make it very clear that they are not rivals led me to feel he knew that McCoy and his wife were once very close. "Genuine affection, I'm glad you still feel it for her."
I'm still okay with Joachim being Khan's son, even if it is not said onscreen, though. It just works too well, that, when they are both facing death, Kirk is growing closer to his son, while Khan is screaming angrily at his and throwing his around the room. All this while there is new life to be made around them with the Genesis Device, yet Khan is losing his cool at his own younger counterpart, at least in some sense.
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