"No, ma'am, no dipshit" in TVH was jarring at first, but I was 12 at the time and just figured, "well, this isn't the '60s TV show anymore so this makes sense."
What are your controversial Star Trek opinions?
- Thread starter Amasov
- Start date
Some might disagree.
I don't think Kirk's death was stupid. It was very heroic. He saved the lives of an entire planet's population who will never know who he is.
And consistent with what he told Spock and McCoy in TFF... he died alone. (He didn't really know Picard at all, so yes, he died alone without his friends or family.)
And it kept with his own motivations he said in GENERATIONS on being a captain... he made a difference.
I'll never pass up an opportunity for the best RVB speech in heroic sacrifice. That the hero doesn't always know if they made a total difference, though Kirk and Spock both find out.
This. As much as I understand the heroism of the idea of Kirk's sacrifice saving untold numbers of people he never met. But, the framing action feels extremely absurd.
Just because he said it doesn't make it true. His prophecy was incorrect, that's all. Nothing wrong with that.
I always hated that line, "I've always known... I'll die alone." Jim Kirk doesn't strike me as the type to believe in mystical precognition. The only way it makes sense is if he means he has faith that he'll be safe as long as he has friends and colleagues he can depend on.
Well, I suppose someone could come up with a story of time-travel shenanigans giving the young Kirk a glimpse into his future, although that would be a rehash of what DSC/SNW did with Pike.
It also only works if he always knew he wouldn't die at the end of a long life of natural causes.
His life and career stood for rationality, not intellectual chaos.
Not every instinct humans have is logical.
He could just be wrong.
In fairness to the writers, Moore and Braga had quite the laundry list of items they were given by the studio and Rick Berman that they had to follow in writing the movie. And then had to deal with the demands of the cast members as well.
Feature both casts, keep the TOS cast participation to the first 15 minutes of the movie, have humor running throughout, have a Data subplot, etc. etc. etc. were all things they were given that they had to work with before they ever started writing a script. Heck, even having the captains on horseback came out of the negotiations to get Shatner to appear.
I think it would have been tough for any writer to construct a good film out of that kind of list.
You mean other than Kirk?
Yes. They were mandated to keep TOS cast participation to the first 15 minutes and then were told they could bring Kirk back at the end. Paramount was very concerned, for some reason, that people view this as a TNG film and so they didn't want the crossover elements running through the entire film.
I think they could have if they'd been given more time. I've always felt the problem was that they rushed into production right after TNG ended and didn't have time to distance themselves from their habits of making TNG on TV, or to invest as much time and work into getting the script right as it needed. Not that Generations was a bad movie -- I actually thought it was pretty good overall -- but it could've been better.
However, Moore and Braga had over a year to work on the script for Generations, and most people -- including the two of them -- seem to agree that their script for "All Good Things...", which they had about two weeks to write, turned out better.
My understanding is that the rushed time frame for putting Generations into production after the series wrapped was largely driven by the fact that they needed to finish with the Enterprise-D sets so they could be repurposed for Voyager. The writing, though, wasn't really rushed.
Which, by feature film standards, is a rather short time frame.
No, but Kirk did follow his gut and intuition often. This could simply be him having that gut feeling.
Intuition is not magical precognition. It's credible to have an intuition about one's present situation, because that just means deducing something from subliminal cues or context, or recognizing a pattern from past experience. Intuition is just filling in the gaps in the information one has. It is nonsensical to think that one could have a valid "gut feeling" about something years or decades in the future, based on no information whatsoever.
Edith Keeler has entered the chat...
I don't know. I've always known/felt since middle/high school that I would be a bachelor/single for the rest of my life and here I am at 55 and I'm still single/bachelor with two cats to keep me company. Sometimes there are things you just "know".
