The Post-Burn Galaxy thread or "Post-Apocalypse or Slightly Used?"

[Charles Phipps]

"I am not a hater but I have criticisms."
-My epitaph as a fan of Star Trek

One of the biggest controversies of Starfleet Academy is an inherited one (and I mean among actual fans of Star Trek versus the hate money machine). Specifically, the show inherited the Post-Burn era as its premise and all the assumptions that it brings. In a very strange way, it is much easier to do a sequel to the heavy continuity of the DS9/TNG/VOY era than it is to DISCO because you have, "the future is so bright, I've gotta wear shades." While the Post-Burn era is, "The future was really bright and now it's gone to hell."

I'm pretty okay with this but I feel like DISCO didn't give the Burn-Era the due to needed (and I assumed it would be a season-long time travel journey anyway and not a ditching of the 23rd century premise). After season 3, it seemed like much of the post-apocalypse galaxy storytelling was abandoned. This despite the fact we saw a Trill where there's more symbiotes than people, a Earth that was so isolationist it was at war with fellow humans in the system without knowing it, and no subspace communication system among the Alpha Quadrant so the Discovery couldn't even be certain the Federation existed.

Then kind of just acts like it's fine the next two seasons.

One thing I've been looking forward to with this show has been whether they'd lean into the Season 3 of it all and show a galaxy that had been shattered as well as give more information how it got that way or if they'd continue pretending the Burn was just a thing that didn't have lasting consequences. Thankfully, it seems to be doing the former not the latter. "Beta Test" is my favorite of the three episodes because it gives some badly needed context and at least alludes to the fact that a lot of the students come from victimized worlds.

Still, it's very much set on a paradisical world and the tone can be very...goofy.

Basically, this is a thread for discussing the Burn-Galaxy in Starfleet Academy and how well you think they can address the issue or even if they should. The post-apocalypse or whatever happened being possibly irreconciable with the upbeat wacky hijinks of Starfleet.

 

[Starflight]

I assumed part of the reason to set it in the distant future would be to just be able to make their own thing with its own tone, like Enterprise tried to do by going to the past.

The show so far doesn't seem to have any interest whatsoever in its own setting but that's not necessarily a problem if it's just intended to be an excuse to have a clean-ish slate.

Admittedly this is scuttled somewhat by the fact that every other building is named after some TOS/TNG shit like "The Helen Noel Auditorium" or "Dave Bailey Gardens" or w/e.

 

[Charles Phipps]

The show so far doesn't seem to have any interest whatsoever in its own setting but that's not necessarily a problem if it's just intended to be an excuse to have a clean-ish slate.

Really?

Because the show has shown significantly more interest than DISCO, I'd argue. After all, Caleb's origin is directly due to the Burn making starvation a thing that humans and other people in the galaxy suffer. The whole reestablishing of the Academy is due to some nebulous "Starfleet losing its way." Also, the big enemies are a giant pirate fleet that can defeat a nation state.

Beta Test is all about following up on the Burn.

 

[Michael]

The show so far doesn't seem to have any interest whatsoever in its own setting but that's not necessarily a problem if it's just intended to be an excuse to have a clean-ish slate.

Hm, I’m not sure I see it that way. Each of the only three episodes so far has at least one element that’s a result of the fact that the known galaxy is in disarray because of the Burn. Sure, they would have been able to tell Caleb’s backstory without the Burn as well, but it does make more dramatic sense in this century than it does during the relative peace of the late 24th and early 25th century. Same for the story of episode two, trying to get Betazed to rejoin the Federation, or the fact that there’s a more militarized version of Starfleet in the War College. Nothing of that would have been totally impossible to tell at earlier points in the history of the Trek universe, but to claim that the show didn’t demonstrate an interest in doing something with the post-Burn setting is IMHO overstating it. Let’s not forget that we’re only three episodes in.

Reportedly episode four will finally answer what happened with the Klingons after the Burn. So I’m sure there will be more world building in that regard going forward.

 

[Starflight]

I dunno, right now it feels very Enterprise-esque, which is to say the setting feels more like flavour rather than something that's acting as a storytelling engine

The Betazed plot ultimately just plays out as "tense negotiations where our hero falls in love with one of the delegates", which is a typical Star Trek story.

This isn't a bad thing - I actually think I'm more interested in the episodic lighthearted comedy the show seems to be promising than I would be in something that was making a more earnest attempt to investigate the setting and the nature of the recent apocalypse - but I'm definitely not currently feeling like I'm watching a group of people who grew up in nightmarish conditions rallying together to form a fledgling Starfleet that's still uncertain about its future.

 

[Turtletrekker]

Something that I mentioned in the War College thread, which is also relevant here, is that the The Last Starship comic is depicting the "Burn" era, and while not canon, they are in contact with the Academy writer's room.

Spoiler: The Last Starship

In the first three issue arc, a fanatical Klingon cult attacked Earth after the Burn destroyed the Empire by dropping their warp cores over major population centers, resulting in Earth's withdrawal.

Then @tenmei pointed out that in the first issue of the second arc, Earth gives Starfleet and the Federation 50 years to vacate the premises essentially. 20 years after the Burn they start putting non-Earth citizens in sanctuary districts.

Whether you accept the comic as canon or not, the fact that they're allowed by Paramount to do this story at all tells me that they don't have any real plans to get too deep into the weeds of the subject on the show, so this may be as much detail as we get.

 

[tenmei]

Issue 4 does roughly synchronise with what had been mentioned in Discovery so its only really clarifying known events. The tell will be if they have Ake turning up in a cameo, I think, given she didnt appear to be in the Forum in #1.

 

[Fateor]

Something that I mentioned in the War College thread, which is also relevant here, is that the The Last Starship comic is depicting the "Burn" era, and while not canon, they are in contact with the Academy writer's room.

Spoiler: The Last Starship

In the first three issue arc, a fanatical Klingon cult attacked Earth after the Burn destroyed the Empire by dropping their warp cores over major population centers, resulting in Earth's withdrawal.

Then @tenmei pointed out that in the first issue of the second arc, Earth gives Starfleet and the Federation 50 years to vacate the premises essentially. 20 years after the Burn they start putting non-Earth citizens in sanctuary districts.

Whether you accept the comic as canon or not, the fact that they're allowed by Paramount to do this story at all tells me that they don't have any real plans to get too deep into the weeds of the subject on the show, so this may be as much detail as we get.

The Last Starship had all Federation starships get destroyed instead of just most so they could push forward the titular "Last Starship".

Had the Klingons basically teleport past the entire solar system to appear in orbit above Earth.

Ignored that Earth's planetary shield would have stopped the cult attack.

Decided that Borg Transwarp travel should have massive time dilation even though it never has before.

Had Earth randomly decide to abandon all Federation technology for "reasons".

And had Agnes resurrect and then sleep with Kirk.

So I'm pretty sure that it's safe to say "The Last Starship" is about as accurate a portrayal of the Burn as the comic that had Shaxs doing a credible impression of the Hulk and divebombing Starships.

 

[Tuskin38]

The Last Starship had all Federation starships get destroyed

No it didn't.

The captain literally calls for backup, why would he do that if he knew all of them were destroyed?

 

[Charles Phipps]

The Last Starship had all Federation starships get destroyed instead of just most so they could push forward the titular "Last Starship".

Had the Klingons basically teleport past the entire solar system to appear in orbit above Earth.

Ignored that Earth's planetary shield would have stopped the cult attack.

Decided that Borg Transwarp travel should have massive time dilation even though it never has before.

Had Earth randomly decide to abandon all Federation technology for "reasons".

And had Agnes resurrect and then sleep with Kirk.

So I'm pretty sure that it's safe to say "The Last Starship" is about as accurate a portrayal of the Burn as the comic that had Shaxs doing a credible impression of the Hulk and divebombing Starships.

I feel like all of this would imply any of the defenses you bring up are canonized versus things you think would have happened versus the licensed comic.

Like, "Earth's shields would have protected it."

Except they didn't...in an official comic.

A lot of stuff happens in Star Trek and the job is of the fans to explain it, not say, "No, that wouldn't happen."

 

[Fateor]

No it didn't.

The captain literally calls for backup, why would he do that if he knew all of them were destroyed?

It was a literal plot point in the comic that they had to build the "Last Starship" out of museum scraps because they had nothing else.

 

[bdub76]

What do I need to do to get caught up on this aspect of the show? I only ever watched the 1.5 seasons worth of DISCO. Is enough information available that I can skip watching all of DISCO before watching Starfleet Academy? I saw the pilot for it on YouTube, and it seems worth a watch.

 

[Turtletrekker]

No it didn't.

The captain literally calls for backup, why would he do that if he knew all of them were destroyed?

I believe the statistic was 96% of the fleet.

 

[Tuskin38]

Is enough information available that I can skip watching all of DISCO before watching Starfleet Academy?

Yes. Watching DSC will give a lot more information, but SFA itself gives enough to understand.

You could also just read the Memory-alpha page on The Burn

 

[tenmei]

The Last Starship had all Federation starships get destroyed instead of just most so they could push forward the titular "Last Starship".

Had the Klingons basically teleport past the entire solar system to appear in orbit above Earth.

Ignored that Earth's planetary shield would have stopped the cult attack.

Decided that Borg Transwarp travel should have massive time dilation even though it never has before.

Had Earth randomly decide to abandon all Federation technology for "reasons".

And had Agnes resurrect and then sleep with Kirk.

So I'm pretty sure that it's safe to say "The Last Starship" is about as accurate a portrayal of the Burn as the comic that had Shaxs doing a credible impression of the Hulk and divebombing Starships.

They lost 96% of Starfleet, it was only active warp cores that detonated, ships powered down or under construction weren't impacted. But Starfleet doesn't want to risk using a dilithium-involved engine so build a starship using quantum slipstream instead.

 

[tenmei]

"Official Comics" run the gamut from Lore destroying the universe, to Dalek's and Cybermen invading, to Riker sleeping with the X-Men.

So they're literally just whatever the writers at the time want, which is actually highlighted in "The Last Starship" by all the stuff the writer randomly decided that went against canon. (For example they had Starfleet detect and record the burn's delay)



The only thing you got accurate in that was that the comic claimed it was 96% of Starfleet that was destroyed.

Which, given that number was mentioned a few posts above yours, highly suggests you haven't actually read the comics.

No need for the personal insults.

I took my time to reply as I was referring to the three issues on my Kindle and didn't notice the post above. If you check, I actually started the The Last Starship thread and have been posting thoughts with each issue.

 

[Elaise]

Something that I mentioned in the War College thread, which is also relevant here, is that the The Last Starship comic is depicting the "Burn" era, and while not canon, they are in contact with the Academy writer's room.

Spoiler: The Last Starship

In the first three issue arc, a fanatical Klingon cult attacked Earth after the Burn destroyed the Empire by dropping their warp cores over major population centers, resulting in Earth's withdrawal.

Then @tenmei pointed out that in the first issue of the second arc, Earth gives Starfleet and the Federation 50 years to vacate the premises essentially. 20 years after the Burn they start putting non-Earth citizens in sanctuary districts.

Whether you accept the comic as canon or not, the fact that they're allowed by Paramount to do this story at all tells me that they don't have any real plans to get too deep into the weeds of the subject on the show, so this may be as much detail as we get.

Spoiler

Did they use the last of their dilithium with new warp cores?

 

[tenmei]

To quote -

Issue #1, Page 17, "Every ACTIVE dilithium matrix in the galaxy. Every warp drive, every research facility, every fuel priming station, and every city, colony or planet in the resulting blast zones ..."

Issue #1, Page 18, "Considering dilithium is no longer a reasonable propulsion mechanism -"

 

[Fateor]

No need for the personal insults.

I took my time to reply as I was referring to the three issues on my Kindle and didn't notice the post above. If you check, I actually started the The Last Starship thread and have been posting thoughts with each issue.

Saying "you got everything but this wrong" isn't a personal insult.

It's a statement of fact.

The comic said "every place with an active dilithium matrix" not every active warp core, an expansion they gave the Burn so they could say it destroyed 96% of starfleet instead of the more limited destruction that was shown in the show.

The comic was also about them begging Agnes for access to Transwarp technology, not slipstream. (In fact the option of synthesizing Benemite isn't even mentioned which is kind of hilarious) Which had it's own problem because apparently the Borg Queen came back and led a 300 year war against the Federation that resulted in the banning of transwarp technology.

 

[Turtletrekker]

If you check, I actually started the The Last Starship thread and have been posting thoughts with each issue.

As an aside, I hope you do the same for the Academy comic. I see that you've already started the thread.