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Spoilers All Things STAR WARS - News, Speculation & Spoilers Thread

UssGlenn said:
eh..."you could get him to let me pilot it for you"
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"You're a pilot?"
"All my life"

and then... other stuff happens
UssGlenn said:
No, Qui Gon took it upon himself, Obi Wan was dying wished into it.
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He still took it upon himself. He never read the imaginary rulebook that says these concepts are mutually exclusive.
UssGlenn said:
Again, easily justifiable, but still a violation of what Lucas meant at the time the line was written.
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Doesn't the idea that a Jedi can only be trained by one person seem a bit presumptuous?
UssGlenn said:
Come on, there is no possible interpretation here other than Owen not wanting Anakin to leave Tatooine with Obi-Wan for the very first time
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Obviously that's not the case. You spoke of "contradictions" but the only things being contradicted here were your own assumptions.
 
Set Harth said:
Doesn't the idea that a Jedi can only be trained by one person seem a bit presumptuous?
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We shouldn't have to come up with justifications for the plain text of the dialogue. If Empire had been written after TMP Obi-Wan would have said "Yoda, the great Jedi instructor", since he taught many Jedi.

Set Harth said:
"You're a pilot?"
"All my life"
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When is that? I can't find it in the transcript.

Set Harth said:
Obviously that's not the case. You spoke of "contradictions" but the only things being contradicted here were your own assumptions.
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Not my assumptions, everyones, including 1977 George Lucas. This version of the story didn't exist before 1994. People were upset because Lucas changed his mind about what the backstory was and that's super annoying.
 
Gaith said:
... which should have been a giant clue to Abrams and the other filmmakers that "their" story (or, rather, their plagiarism of Lucas' 1977 story) was horribly flawed.
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And yet Wise Master Hamill thinks there was a place in there for a 30 second scene. And was terribly offended when he was denied this most reasonable and simple of requests.

Gaith said:
Did Lucas copy elements and heavily sampled prior sequences and shots, especially in the Death Star trench run? Of course, but Abrams' copying was on a whole additional level. Reasonable people can disagree on which words to use when, but suggesting that Abrams didn't copy ANH more heavily, more directly, and in greater quantity than Lucas copied from his prior sources is absurd.
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You have a planet killer and a desert planet (which, incredibly, he manages to make VERY different from Tatooine).

AND?

As for assumptions about the prequels: I for one heard the line "A young student named Darth Vader, who was a pupil of mine before he turned to evil, helped the Empire hunt down and destroy the Jedi Knights" OBVIOUSLY meant "He cut up a bunch of four year olds with a lightsaber while a clone army took on the grown ups. THAT lightsaber, as a matter of fact."
 
In 1999, I was expecting Anakin to be older. Largely because Sebastian Shaw was an old man when we saw him. Making Anakin seem more a contemporary of Obi-wan, rather than a young kid. Maybe the age difference between Luke and Han (ten years) Rather than 15 or more as it turns out. The problems are also we keep forgetting that Luke and Leia are 19 in ANH, meaning it has been that long since the founding of the Empire (if not longer), but Anakin's fall would be at most 20 years before (has to get Padme pregnant after all), assuming he hadn't become Darth Vader before that. We assume Anakin is older due to Shaw, thus Anakin would be an older father (in his late 30s or 40s at the end of the Clone Wars) rather than the young man in his early 20s at wars end. And that we meet him at the age of 9 or 10 is something else. Given Shaw and Guiness' ages, we expected to meet grown men, or at the least, if Kenobi is in his mid-late 20s, then a teenaged Skywalker, maybe slightly younger than we meet Luke.

That was what I had in my mind before TMP came out.
 
UssGlenn said:
Find me someone before 1999 who thought that dialogue describes Anakin not meeting Owen until a decade after he became a Jedi and I'll eat my hat.
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How one movie in a trilogy sounds to an audience member compared to how the next ones play out isn't terribly relevant. George made creative choices in both trilogies that led some in the audience to believe something completely different than what he eventually showed us, but that's filmmaking and writing and refining the story arc as one goes along.

Same applies to Trek. TOS implies one thing while the TNG Era shows us something completely different, and then the streaming shows set after TNG contextualize the two earlier eras in new lights we never conceived in 1966 or 1987. And then ENT came along to add a completely new spin to the whole franchise as the earliest point in the timeline of the different series.
 
The actual amazing part is that, despite Alec Guiness not meaning to in any sense, the lines delivered about Luke's father still work once you get to Revenge of the Sith and the Clone Wars. The pain is there for Anakin's fall to become Darth Vader, even if that wasn't the plan at that time. The looks are there. It may be people seeing what they want to see, and maybe it is just the work of a master.

Even Owen's line about him being afraid Luke has too much of his father in him.
 
Ithekro said:
The actual amazing part is that, despite Alec Guiness not meaning to in any sense, the lines delivered about Luke's father still work once you get to Revenge of the Sith and the Clone Wars. The pain is there for Anakin's fall to become Darth Vader, even if that wasn't the plan at that time. The looks are there. It may be people seeing what they want to see, and maybe it is just the work of a master.

Even Owen's line about him being afraid Luke has too much of his father in him.
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I feel like there is a lot Lucas implied, and then went back in and filled it in with colors we didn't expect. The Clone Wars were not the same as what we got.

Call it assumptions, which is fine, but people had ideas. The novels implied some things too. The prequels would have surmounted them if the characters and stories were better received. Despite what people insist, the Prequels were not well received.
 
Set Harth said:
Did anyone in 1977 think "Vader murdered your father" wasn't true?
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it was true in 1977. George didn't add that until the second draft of Empire. We let him have that one, he didn't need to retcon everything else too. Is there anything in that conversation that wasn't changed from the original implications?
 
Tallguy said:
You have a planet killer and a desert planet (which, incredibly, he manages to make VERY different from Tatooine).

AND?
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LOL, if you haven't joined the rest of the world in agreeing that TFA is a blatant ANH rehash in the past ten years, I certainly can't be bothered to argue it for ya. :rommie:
 
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