Oh, Jadzia!

[CaseyW]

Do we need spoiler alerts on such old shows? Just in case, here is one.

I find it hard to believe that the first time I watched DS9 I never really warmed to Jadzia Dax. I remember thinking she just didn’t come alive. Where was my head?! I am cherry picking my way through the seven seasons before they go off Netflix in less than a week and I’ve really fallen in love with her this time around. And now that I am in season six – in fact I’m in the middle of the wedding episode – and I know what is coming at the end of the season, I find myself getting sad in advance. That’s when I’m not feeling mad about the decision to kill her.

So, no real question, just a little moment here before carrying on to the inevitable.

 

[Tosk]

and I know what is coming at the end of the season, I find myself getting sad in advance.

Oh no, what's coming?!

 

[Dukhat]

Jadzia Dax's unpopularity as a character was prevalent even behind the scenes. The producers didn't like her character mainly because they really had no idea what to do with her. The whole 'old man in young girl's body' schtick rarely came across because Farrell was just acting like a young woman and not an old man. And her acting was pretty wooden to begin with. I remember reading somewhere that they were thinking of killing her off early, but just never got around to doing it.

But the really interesting thing about Jazdia, which I'm not sure if most people actually caught on to, was that in an effort to 'rebrand' her dull, science-officer-y persona, they started making her character more like a smartass sexual-innuendo-laden type who was a badass respected by the Klingons, which was exactly how Curzon Dax was described. So in effect, Curzon's personality overrode Jadzia's.

 

[Bad Thoughts]

You are not alone. I found the character, in the first few seasons, generally dull in terms of writing and performance. It seems like the character was meant to be the focus of high-concept science fiction stories, but when it came to performance, they avoided giving Dax the spotlight. All the dramatic parts of Dax, Invasive Procedures, and Equilibrium went to Avery Brooks, while Terry Farrell was passive or, in the last instance, asleep. Farrell had a specific skill set, being well suited for romantic comedy, and developed a strong action persona as the series progressed. That's not to say that she couldn't add to a dramatic scene (see In the Pale Moonlight). Season 6, her last, was strong for Farrell. She looked good as "the captain" for a couple episodes. She brought authority and vulnerability in You Are Cordially Invited. And she has a devilish role in His Way.

 

[Dukhat]

The inherent problem was the depiction of the Trills in TNG versus DS9. In TNG, the hosts had zero personality until they were joined with the slug, and then it’s the slug’s personality controlling the host body. It’s almost more of a parasitical relationship than a symbiotic relationship. In DS9 we find out that the hosts all have distinct personalities, and the only benefit the slugs have is to give each host the memories of former hosts.

I think the original idea for Dax was more like TNG, and that it would literally be an ‘old man in young girl’s body’ situation that I previously described. But somehow that idea was abandoned, and Jadzia was just seen as a young Starfleet Lieutenant who would occasionally mention something in passing about Curzon. And Sisko’s ‘Old Man’ moniker for her, which ended up being more figurative than literal.

 

[Bad Thoughts]

The inherent problem was the depiction of the Trills in TNG versus DS9. In TNG, the hosts had zero personality until they were joined with the slug, and then it’s the slug’s personality controlling the host body. It’s almost more of a parasitical relationship than a symbiotic relationship. In DS9 we find out that the hosts all have distinct personalities, and the only benefit the slugs have is to give each host the memories of former hosts.

Inherent, in the sense of Piller and Berman didn't think it through when creating the series, but those joined were supposed to be the best of the best, no? They shouldn't be wet blankets. They should have been vibrant and determine, already thoughtful scientists, creative people, and leaders in all their fields.

 

[Laura Cynthia Chambers]

I suppose they could have had symbionts spend a certain amount of time learning from various skilled individuals, before eventually "retiring" to somewhat blank slate Trill - making the Trill more productive and letting the symbiont give instead of take.

 

[Orphalesion]

Yeah, Jadzia is probably my least favourite character in DS9. I can understand that she was probably a difficult character both to write for and to act because she was both a very high concept character and from some interviews by Terri Farrel that it seemed like everybody involved had a different idea of who or what Jadzia should be. She was supposed to be "ethereal" like Grace Kelley but also Siskio's "old man" mentor and this and that until it seemed like they were just throwing everything they wanted at the character.

Her relationship with Worf was also incredibly miserable and seemed to bring out the worst in both characters.
I also never bought it when they tried to pair up Kira and Jadzia as friends just because they were the only two women in the principal cast.

But just like with Troi and Kes I do think the character concept could have worked. And, arguably, we see it work later on with Ezri, who, unlike Jadzia, was far too good a character to waste on a single season.

 

[kkt]

I see it as partially miscasting and partially a writing problem. An actor is told to play 7 personalities in one? I'm not sure exactly what the actor would do with that, especially when there's not very much in the writing to work off of. Even the best actor in the world would have a lot of trouble with it. And then she's supposed to be playing a very difficult part, and they cast an ingenue who was mostly a model before doing Star Trek. That said, Farrell did improve quite a lot over the course of her Star Trek career. In some episodes she just shone. "You Are Cordially Invited" and "Rejoined" for instance.

 

[Laura Cynthia Chambers]

Another Trill idea: make it possible to switch between symbiont (ex-host) and current host at will. Whichever skill you need, turn on the person who can do it. The catch is you wind up dealing with a different personality than what you're used to. Occasionally, they don't remember/know everything the current host does.

An impersonator/comedian who can do different voices would've made an excellent Trill.

 

[Dukhat]

Inherent, in the sense of Piller and Berman didn't think it through when creating the series, but those joined were supposed to be the best of the best, no? They shouldn't be wet blankets. They should have been vibrant and determine, already thoughtful scientists, creative people, and leaders in all their fields.

Not just the best of the best, but they logically should have been people who would not be putting the symbionts in any danger, considering how valuable they were to Trill society. Giving one to a Starfleet lieutenant facing danger on a weekly basis made no logical sense.

 

[Laura Cynthia Chambers]

If it's the experience they value, have a Trill meld with a Vulcan officer.

 

[CaseyW]

Jadzia Dax's unpopularity as a character was prevalent even behind the scenes. The producers didn't like her character mainly because they really had no idea what to do with her. The whole 'old man in young girl's body' schtick rarely came across because Farrell was just acting like a young woman and not an old man. And her acting was pretty wooden to begin with. I remember reading somewhere that they were thinking of killing her off early, but just never got around to doing it.

But the really interesting thing about Jazdia, which I'm not sure if most people actually caught on to, was that in an effort to 'rebrand' her dull, science-officer-y persona, they started making her character more like a smartass sexual-innuendo-laden type who was a badass respected by the Klingons, which was exactly how Curzon Dax was described. So in effect, Curzon's personality overrode Jadzia's.

Interesting that they had that conflict all along. I had only heard that she was canned when she wanted to work fewer hours.

I don’t think Curzon overrode Jadzia — as you say, she acted like a young woman, AND she acted like him, in what seemed to me a lovely pairing. If anything, I think all of the other hosts were overwritten by those two, for the most part, although she did draw on their memories and experience at times, which I appreciate. Not sorry that Mr. Murderous Grumpy didn’t get much airtime.

 

[Orphalesion]

The personalities of joined Trill are basically meant to be a fusion of all the personalities of the hosts and the symbiote. Though the current host and the last couple hosts seem to contribute the most to this fusion.I also don't think the Dax symbiote ever contributed anything that can be recognised, if that glorified slug had any personality I sure never noticed it.

And stuff like that doesn't really work all that well in fiction if the characters who were combined in this fusion haven't been established beforehand. So Jadzia, especially in the first season was basically meant to be combination of pre-joining Jadzia and of Curzon (at least most of the time). And since neither we, nor the writers, nor Terri Farrel had a very good idea on who Jadzia and Curzon were before their mental fusion (or, really any idea at all), of course that didn't work out very well.
That's also why Ezri worked better, since Jadzia and Curzon had been established by that point and so we saw their influence on her and how she, as Ezri, coped with it.

Like I seriously think Jadzia would have probably worked better if they had Curzon on the show for, like, half of the first season or something, then he could have died, Jadzia could have shown up, received the symbiote and we could have seen the contrast.

 

[CaseyW]

You are not alone. I found the character, in the first few seasons, generally dull in terms of writing and performance. It seems like the character was meant to be the focus of high-concept science fiction stories, but when it came to performance, they avoided giving Dax the spotlight. All the dramatic parts of Dax, Invasive Procedures, and Equilibrium went to Avery Brooks, while Terry Farrell was passive or, in the last instance, asleep. Farrell had a specific skill set, being well suited for romantic comedy, and developed a strong action persona as the series progressed. That's not to say that she couldn't add to a dramatic scene (see In the Pale Moonlight). Season 6, her last, was strong for Farrell. She looked good as "the captain" for a couple episodes. She brought authority and vulnerability in You Are Cordially Invited. And she has a devilish role in His Way.

Yes, if she had been given more weight to carry, she would have grown stronger, faster, in her role.

 

[CaseyW]

The inherent problem was the depiction of the Trills in TNG versus DS9. In TNG, the hosts had zero personality until they were joined with the slug, and then it’s the slug’s personality controlling the host body. It’s almost more of a parasitical relationship than a symbiotic relationship. In DS9 we find out that the hosts all have distinct personalities, and the only benefit the slugs have is to give each host the memories of former hosts.

I think the original idea for Dax was more like TNG, and that it would literally be an ‘old man in young girl’s body’ situation that I previously described. But somehow that idea was abandoned, and Jadzia was just seen as a young Starfleet Lieutenant who would occasionally mention something in passing about Curzon. And Sisko’s ‘Old Man’ moniker for her, which ended up being more figurative than literal.

Interesting point about the slug: personality ratio.

 

[DonIago]

In retrospect, Ezri Dax came pre-loaded with the more interesting backstory, so I'd say have Jadzia on the series for the first season or two as an unjoined Trill...get to know who she is as an individual...then have her become Joined, perhaps under suboptimal circumstances, and allow the viewers to see the effects that has on her and her relationships with others. Heck, you could even have Curzon in an episode or two prior to Jadzia becoming joined so that the audience would have some familiarity with Dax's most immediate prior host.

 

[CaseyW]

Inherent, in the sense of Piller and Berman didn't think it through when creating the series, but those joined were supposed to be the best of the best, no? They shouldn't be wet blankets. They should have been vibrant and determine, already thoughtful scientists, creative people, and leaders in all their fields.

On this pass, I am not finding her to be a wet blanket at all. She is just understated, and since most of the characters are overstated (if that’s a word), it makes her seem less than she is. I like her, this time around.

 

[CaseyW]

Yeah, Jadzia is probably my least favourite character in DS9. I can understand that she was probably a difficult character both to write for and to act because she was both a very high concept character and from some interviews by Terri Farrel that it seemed like everybody involved had a different idea of who or what Jadzia should be. She was supposed to be "ethereal" like Grace Kelley but also Siskio's "old man" mentor and this and that until it seemed like they were just throwing everything they wanted at the character.

Her relationship with Worf was also incredibly miserable and seemed to bring out the worst in both characters.
I also never bought it when they tried to pair up Kira and Jadzia as friends just because they were the only two women in the principal cast.

But just like with Troi and Kes I do think the character concept could have worked. And, arguably, we see it work later on with Ezri, who, unlike Jadzia, was far too good a character to waste on a single season.

I am probably treading on thin ice here, but I think my least favourite character is Chief O'Brien. It's taken me a long time to get to that point, because I like the actor and I like the character. Mostly. But I don't feel like the acting is all that convincing and some of the storylines, some of the decisions he makes (and the whiney way he acts) really get up my nose. Such as when he destroyed the work that Julian was doing to try to help the Jem'Hadar fighters get off ketracel-white.

 

[CaseyW]

Not just the best of the best, but they logically should have been people who would not be putting the symbionts in any danger, considering how valuable they were to Trill society. Giving one to a Starfleet lieutenant facing danger on a weekly basis made no logical sense.

Good point!