Yep. On the other hand, given that something with the potential to be a doomsday weapon was involved, Starfleet may have deliberately assigned a captain who they knew they could keep on a tight leash, and then ordered him not to take any liberties.
Worst Captain in Star Trek
- Thread starter kkt
- Start date
There are still insurance companies? So much for the Federation being paradise.But are the deaths attributable to Picard or to Bateman? Who would the space cops and the space insurance companies find at fault?
Plus the extremely delicate political situation. And the fact Grissom was a science vessel, not a combat ship like the BoP. Estaban was not a combat officer and was not expecting combat.
I forgot to add... someone asked if the Mutara sector was inside Federation space.
I don't think it was ever explicitly stated, but it's VERY strongly indicated that it was.
This would mean that Starfleet might not have felt the need to send a more heavily armed ship to Genesis. Or another as a guard for the Grissom. (Which, honestly, given it seemed to be in somewhat close proximity to Klingon space, was stupid, politics or not.)
That Klingon lawyer calling for Kirk's head in TVH made me laugh , particularly after Sarek (correctly) made several points about what Kruge did before Kirk even showed up.
Your guy trespassed into Federation space, destroyed a Federation science vessel, killed Federation citizens, stole top secret Federation information (Genesis project)... but Kirk was the bad guy here because he stopped Kruge and took his ship? I'll give him points for being ballsy enough to even entertain that idea in front of others, but damn did that make them look stupid.
I don't think it was ever explicitly stated, but it's VERY strongly indicated that it was.
This would mean that Starfleet might not have felt the need to send a more heavily armed ship to Genesis. Or another as a guard for the Grissom. (Which, honestly, given it seemed to be in somewhat close proximity to Klingon space, was stupid, politics or not.)
That Klingon lawyer calling for Kirk's head in TVH made me laugh , particularly after Sarek (correctly) made several points about what Kruge did before Kirk even showed up.
Your guy trespassed into Federation space, destroyed a Federation science vessel, killed Federation citizens, stole top secret Federation information (Genesis project)... but Kirk was the bad guy here because he stopped Kruge and took his ship? I'll give him points for being ballsy enough to even entertain that idea in front of others, but damn did that make them look stupid.
Hmm. I wonder whether Starfleet thought that deploying a more high-profile ship to the Mutara sector might attract more attention, while a lone science ship would go relatively unnoticed?
Though if the Klingons didn't notice and have a lot of questions about the disappearance of a nebula and the appearance of a planet (and possibly a star?), then.. I dunno, would the Klingons be more likely to be on the lookout for and/or alarmed by ship movements than by the detonation of the Genesis Device?
I've assumed the Mutara Sector was in Federation space, but it also feels as though we have to assume it was fairly close to Klingon space.
Though if the Klingons didn't notice and have a lot of questions about the disappearance of a nebula and the appearance of a planet (and possibly a star?), then.. I dunno, would the Klingons be more likely to be on the lookout for and/or alarmed by ship movements than by the detonation of the Genesis Device?
I've assumed the Mutara Sector was in Federation space, but it also feels as though we have to assume it was fairly close to Klingon space.
I think it's the same kind of logic that would blame the US for detonating atomic bombs on Japan regardless of the actions that had precipitated that decision. Essentially, while the Klingons did some bad things, the development (and use) of Genesis had destabilized the balance of power to the point that the Klingons were justified in their own actions by comparison.
The difference being those bombs were dropped in Japan, while the Genesis device exploding happened in Federation space, NOT in Klingon space or on their worlds.
Had it occured in Klingon space, I might agree with you.
Given it occurred in the Federation Council chambers as well, and the Klingon Ambassador's bombast doing the proceedings, putting on a performance and calling attention to Genesis and the repercussions it may have and rattling the counselors may have been the point in and of itself.
"There shall be no peace as long as Kirk lives!"
Reply if it was President Sisko or Jellico.
'No peace, it is then. See ya!
President Pike
'Lets talk, over some stir fry gagh.'
President Picard
'To be or not to be.'
President Janeway
'I agree. That damned cowboy should be locked up, now send us some rakterjino'
President Burnham shoots ambassador.
President Archer
'There was once a gazelle named Kirk.....
President Freeman beams a group of Pakleds on the Klingon ship
Last edited:
Neither Roddenberry nor Picard thought of the Enterprise D as a warship. She was an exploration ship that could also defend herself. If she had been a warship, she wouldn't have families aboard or be stuffed full of science labs. She'd be more like the Defiant.
Klingons to Pike: "You KILL your Gagh?? It's only good if it's wriggling!"
It was most definitely a warship. Galaxy class ships fought in the dominion war (in fact, they kind of started it, from one side's point of view). The kind of arrogant gunboat diplomacy of flying into inhabited systems in a fully armed battleship full of kids and civilians and pretending it's not a warship because they say it isn't does kind of show just how bizarre a show TNG season 1 was, and how stuck they were with some of the elements from that, later on.
You can put a couple of kids in the back seats of a B-52, but it's still a bomber.
Is a B-52 twice the size a bomber needs to be in order to hold cabins for the spouses and kids, and lots of science labs? Do we send B-52s to investigate a mysterious something or other?
A dozen Defiant-classes would be a far better investment in warships than one Galaxy. The Galaxies can fight, but it's not what they are best at.
A dozen Defiant-classes would be a far better investment in warships than one Galaxy. The Galaxies can fight, but it's not what they are best at.
I think all Captains should be combat ready as should all ships. It's dangerous out in space.
Especially when that ship is used as "insurance" against another power's battle cruiser.
Since there really is no direct equivalent to Starfleet on earth, I'll come up with the closest example in my country: Coast Guard. And no, families don't stay aboard cutters when they're doing something non-military like bouy tending or ice breaking. Because that ship can become a military asset as quick as it takes to radio them such.
This is a strange kind of pointless analogy. One: There were no finished Defiant class ships when the Galaxy class began being used, and there were never more than a handful, apparently, two of which were destroyed. A big deal is made of Defiant being Starfleet's only warship (despite contrary evidence) but somehow Starfleet had plenty of wars without them, and even in their biggest war, they only used a few.
I prefer the analogy of the British and American navies during the long peace from 1815-1914. Obviously it wasn't totally peaceful, but there weren't any full-scale wars between naval powers. The navies were a lot smaller, and they mostly did exploration, surveying, and scientific missions. From about 1905 on there was a naval arms race. The new Dreadnoughts were so much better than anything older that all of a suddent the German navy was just as good as the British navy. A Dreadnought fighting a pre-Dreadnought could just sit slightly out of range of the pre-Dreadnought and pound it with shells until it sank, without the Dreadnought ever getting hit.
They didn't say, but during the Dominion war as large numbers of ships were destroyed Starfleet was crazy if they were building Galaxies instead of Defiants. For fighting, a large hull is not an advantage. It makes the ship less maneuverable and slower to accelerate or decelerate. You want a small ship like the Defiant: just big enough for a bunch of phasers and photon torpedoes, and crew just big enough to work 4 shifts with some backup for every crew member. Looking at the Galaxies there are so many crew quarters you'd think it was a cruise ship. We know there was at least USS Valiant before the war started, because she was caught out of position when the war started. If they had those two, they probably had more also.
Perhaps not. However, any Starfleet officer should have received basic combat training. Did Estaban even raise his shields? And he didn't even order evasive maneuvers, he said "standby for evasive." Heck, why not just jump to warp, get out of there, and get reinforcements?
Agreed every Starfleet captain should have some basic combat training. And he should have at least done some evasive maneuvers instead of "stand by" for them.
However, I do think a reason he didn't immediately go to warp was because David and Saavik were still on the surface, and he didn't want to leave them behind to be captured by the Klingons. Considering they were the ones invesigating the planet itself, and David being the expert and co-developer of the Genesis project, leaving him alone to the Klingons without even attempting to get them back would be a bad move.
Similar threads
