DC Cinematic Universe ( The James Gunn era)

[Christopher]

Either way, the point is not about continuity links, the point is that the vast majority of the DCEU was made with zero actual participation from Zack Snyder, and Snyder probably wouldn't even approve of how most of it was done, which is why he and WB parted ways so early in the process. So it's not only factually inaccurate but downright bizarre to call the entire DCEU "the Snyderverse."

 

[Set Harth]

Either way, the point is not about continuity links

You're the one who brought up continuity links.

I think you’re perhaps missing the distinction that The Flash contains a couple of ambiguous references

They're not generally ambiguous.

The Henry Cavill Superman (spoiler) appears at the end of Black Adam

But is it the Superman from the Snyder Cut or the one from the Whedon cut?

So it's not only factually inaccurate but downright bizarre to call the entire DCEU "the Snyderverse."

Some people call the branch Trek timeline the Kelvinverse even though it stopped being about the Kelvin fairly early on in the process.

 

[theenglish]

I think you’re perhaps missing the distinction that The Flash contains a couple of ambiguous references that appear to legitimize the Snyder cut of JL as the “real” version of that film (though Snyder himself has said it’s non-canon to the official DCEU continuity, and it’s explicitly inconsistent with Aquaman).

I'm curious. Can you give some examples about JL and Aquaman references?

 

[The Realist]

I'm curious. Can you give some examples about JL and Aquaman references?

In Zack Snyder’s Justice League, Mera says she was orphaned.

My parents died in the wars. She [Queen Atlanna] took me in.

In Aquaman, Mera’s father is a major player in the narrative.

 

[The Realist]

They're not generally ambiguous.

They’re vague and nonspecific Easter eggs. IIRC, there’s a suggestion that Barry and Iris have met before, and a reference to Barry having previously traveled in time. Don’t get me wrong, they’re pretty clearly intended as nods to ZSJL, but to treat them as some triumphant validation is overstating the case, and frankly carries a whiff of desperation. (Not saying you’re doing that, but others have.)

It seems to me that, post-ZSJL, there are two separate continuities in play, branching off after BvS:

• the official DCEU continuity, consisting of MoS, BvS, all the subsequent DCEU theatrical releases, and Peacemaker’s first season; and
• the Snyder trilogy, consisting of MoS, BvS, and ZSJL.

Not sure why that isn’t enough to satisfy all concerned.

 

[Set Harth]

They’re vague and nonspecific Easter eggs. IIRC, there’s a suggestion that Barry and Iris have met before, and a reference to Barry having previously traveled in time.

* Only the Iris thing qualifies as in any way vague. That's one of those things where the implication of what's being referenced is fairly obvious, but yeah it's not like it's provable in a court of law or anything.
* Barry is said to have time traveled in Russia, something which happens in one version but not in the other.
* Also: in the 2017 JL Barry hasn't saved anyone before, but we see in The Flash that this is not true.
* Finally one of the scenes depicted in the time bowl is from ZSJL specifically.
No one is saying that any of this is supposed to be 'validation' of the Snyderverse, it is only the evidence weighing in on which version of JL is in continuity with The Flash.

 

[The Realist]

* Only the Iris thing qualifies as in any way vague. That's one of those things where the implication of what's being referenced is fairly obvious, but yeah it's not like it's provable in a court of law or anything.
* Barry is said to have time traveled in Russia, something which happens in one version but not in the other.
* Also: in the 2017 JL Barry hasn't saved anyone before, but we see in The Flash that this is not true.
* Finally one of the scenes depicted in the time bowl is from ZSJL specifically.
No one is saying that any of this is supposed to be 'validation' of the Snyderverse, it is only the evidence weighing in on which version of JL is in continuity with The Flash.

So is it your premise that The Flash is out of continuity with most of the DCEU (especially but not limited to Aquaman, which as noted is plainly inconsistent with explicit dialogue in ZSJL), and is instead a continuation of what I distinguished as the “Snyder trilogy”?

Seems unnecessarily convoluted to me, but to each their own.

 

[JD]

Some people call the branch Trek timeline the Kelvinverse even though it stopped being about the Kelvin fairly early on in the process.

That's not the same thing at all, the Kelvinverse or Kelvin timeline is the official name given to that timeline by Paramount itself, and it is referring to the specific event which split it off from the Prime timeline.
The Snyderverse on the other was purely a fan thing based on Snyder's involvement in the earlier movies, while the official name was always The DC Extended Universe. Snyder's involved was also something that stopped applying the movies after a relatively short time, but the significance of the Kelvin's destruction never changed since all three movies took place in the timeline that split off when it happened.

 

[Christopher]

That's not the same thing at all, the Kelvinverse or Kelvin timeline is the official name given to that timeline by Paramount itself, and it is referring to the specific event which split it off from the Prime timeline.
The Snyderverse on the other was purely a fan thing based on Snyder's involvement in the earlier movies, while the official name was always The DC Extended Universe. Snyder's involved was also something that stopped applying the movies after a relatively short time, but the significance of the Kelvin's destruction never changed since all three movies took place in the timeline that split off when it happened.

Mostly, yeah, although "DC Extended Universe" was actually coined by an Entertainment Weekly reporter and DC/WB didn't initially consider it official, although they eventually adopted it in 2020.

As for "Kelvin timeline," that wasn't coined until 2016, when the Okudas needed to come up with an in-universe label for the new edition of the Star Trek Encyclopedia. But it was officially adopted by CBS/Paramount at the time. Before then, a lot of people called it the Abramsverse, though I wasn't crazy about identifying it with just one creator. At least Abrams actually was in charge of the whole thing, though, unlike Snyder.

 

[JD]

Oh, I didn't know that about the DCEU name, I just knew that I'd seen it called that in stuff from DC and WB.
I didn't realize the Kelvin timeline name came that late, I thought they started using it in the lead up to Into Darkness's release.

 

[theenglish]

Oh, I didn't know that about the DCEU name, I just knew that I'd seen it called that in stuff from DC and WB.
I didn't realize the Kelvin timeline name came that late, I thought they started using it in the lead up to Into Darkness's release.

When was the first time somebody on this board called it the Kelvin verse? I think Abrams was in the name for a long time.

 

[Christopher]

When was the first time somebody on this board called it the Kelvin verse? I think Abrams was in the name for a long time.

I can find no uses of "Kelvin Timeline," "Kelvin universe," or "Kelvin verse" on this board earlier than the June 21, 2016 post announcing it as the official term:

So the actual CBS name for the JJverse/NuTrek is...

Kelvin Timeline This is according to Al Rivera the lead designer of the Star Trek MMO (The game is about to start having missions set in this timeline). https://twitter.com/CaptainGeko/status/745096154933714948

www.trekbbs.com

The second post in that thread was someone saying it would never catch on, but TrekBBS posters were using it in other threads within a week.

 

[Set Harth]

So is it your premise that The Flash is out of continuity with most of the DCEU (especially but not limited to Aquaman, which as noted is plainly inconsistent with explicit dialogue in ZSJL), and is instead a continuation of what I distinguished as the “Snyder trilogy”?

It seems clear that in the case of The Flash the filmmakers intended it to be a sequel to ZSJL, claims by management notwithstanding.

 

[Mage]

It seems clear that in the case of The Flash the filmmakers intended it to be a sequel to ZSJL, claims by management notwithstanding.

Agreed. I mean, it literally has a callback to him doing his little back in time thingie from the Snyder cut.

 

[The Realist]

Well, so again, the premise is that The Flash is in a separate continuity from the official DCEU, part of an offshoot that includes ZSJL?

Just trying to be clear here.

 

[Mage]

Well, so again, the premise is that The Flash is in a separate continuity from the official DCEU, part of an offshoot that includes ZSJL?

Just trying to be clear here.

Hm..... I guess one could see it that way. I mean, I kinda consider MoS/BvS/ZSJL one coherent piece, and the Flash connects to those directly. And it seems to not connect directly to the other DCEU movies.

 

[The Realist]

I kinda consider MoS/BvS/ZSJL one coherent piece

Agreed, and I’m happy to stop there, and consider the ZSJL references in The Flash as respectful winks and nods by the filmmakers.

Honestly, the style and tone of The Flash in no way feel of a piece with Snyder’s movies. In fact, it’s generally considered kinda crummy. I would think even diehard fans of Snyder would prefer to keep them separate.

 

[The Realist]

An additional thought: Both the Supergirl TV series and Superman & Lois inserted allusions to events from Superman ‘78 into their worlds’ backstories, clearly without intending to suggest they were actually part of the same continuity. Sometimes Easter eggs are just Easter eggs, and just for fun.

 

[Mage]

Agreed, and I’m happy to stop there, and consider the ZSJL references in The Flash as respectful winks and nods by the filmmakers.

Honestly, the style and tone of The Flash in no way feel of a piece with Snyder’s movies. In fact, it’s generally considered kinda crummy. I would think even diehard fans of Snyder would prefer to keep them separate.

I'm not a die hard Snyder fan, but I do love his 'trilogy'. Having said that, as entertaining as The Flash was in some ways, it was also not a great movie. The memberberries to my childhood Batman were awesome, even though I consider Bale, Affleck and Pattinson as my top three Batmen for various reasons.

 

[Set Harth]

In fact, it’s generally considered kinda crummy.

as opposed to the generally warm reception experienced by all the other components of the MoS/BvS/ZSJL thing?