See you in court
- Thread starter Adventerprise
- Start date
Exactly. An assumed loss of that kind would mean no search for remains was necessary, Further, the 1701 was in the ion storm, so they did not have the luxury of riding that out to look for remians they assumed would not be found due to the nature of the accident.
The point is that the state of affairs is not necessarily perfect, but undeniably better. If The United Federation of Planets is just fancy marketing with holodecks and replicators, then why am I watching? The glitz? The glamour? The incomprehensible scientific jargon?
Why would I accept the existence of a morally-suspect (and that is putting it lightly) secret organization which undermines the entire point of this hypothetical optimistic futuristic galactic society?
I never said said Federation, and Earth, life isn't better than now. It certainly is. It is still something to aspire to, even if it isn't perfect or a paradise. Whether it's TOS era or DS9. And perfection/paradise is unattainable, anyway.
Regarding Section 31... I don't see them undermining the point of an optimistic future at all. If anything, it helps to shine a better light on it.
It's wonderful to have good morals and ethics, but if they are never challenged, they don't really mean anything. That's one of the points of Section 31.
They have the same goals as the Federation, they simply have a different approach on how to achieve those goals. So it is a 'good vs. good' situation.
Here's the thing. I don't think the Federation is supposed to be literally a utopia (despite what some modern-day fans seem to think). It's an optimistic vision of the future, based on utopian ideals, but it's still inhabited by fallible human beings who sometimes have to struggle to live up to its highest principles (just like every culture and civilization that has ever existed). Indeed, as god-like beings are fond of reminding us, humanity is still a half-savage child race with a long way to go.
Heck, even TNG occasionally showed us that the Federation was not literally perfect. See episodes like "The Drumhead," "The Wounded," etc.
The way I see it, there's a big and crucial gap between "optimistic" and "utopian" -- especially out in the Final Frontier, where hardscrabble colonists and settlements still struggle to get by.
It’s the same modern-day simplification by which, to some, “dystopian” means “not as happy as it used to be”.
And that anything less than "utopian" is therefore "dystopian."
As opposed to those terms being the extremes at opposite ends of a wide spectrum, with a whole range of possibilities in-between.
The Federation is not supposed to be "Perfect." Just striving to be ever better than before -- with occasional lapses and setbacks.
You must've gotten different versions of those SNW episodes than I did.
Whether this organization is supported (even created) by the highest in Federation command or has managed to steadily coalesce within the Federation and constantly remain hidden in the process, it is part of the Federation. In any work which it exists, it can always be pointed at by viewers. What is keeping this aspirational coalition together?
It it masterful diplomacy that maintains manifold relations?
Is it a philosophy which manages to balance cultural identity with universal rights?
Is it engineering par excellence?
Is it some of the best tactics in the Alpha Quadrant?
No: in the end, it is a bloodied dagger that will remain forever unseen and unknown to the public. All of those aforementioned qualities are effectively worthless unless a few good anonymous men are willing to commit murder.
And while most of the time those other things like master diplomacy, engineering, etc. do work, there are always situations where it doesn't. For the simple reason being not everyone is rational or able to compromise.
Otherwise, the Federation wouldn't have had...
Talaraian War
Cardassian War
At least 2 Tzenkethi Wars
Multiple Klingon Wars
Dominion War
Other wars
It sucks, but sometimes something like Section 31 IS necessary.
Only if a writer decides that is required. Also, let us be clear that there is a difference between open warfare and skulduggery (which includes "kingmaking"/"nation building" in the dark); neither is good, but at least the former is clear and recognizable. When it comes to any potential Star Trek series with a vision of better times ahead, murder being the linchpin of civilization is the boulder in the boot.
Last edited:
We see real life examples in history and current times where people ARE unreasonable and something like Section 31 is needed.
And Section 31 does what it does to defend the Federation and keep it secure and safe.
Starring Randolf Vulcantooth and Kevin T'ighe...
Shuttlecraft with Engine 51 on the door?
IDK - I didn't find that subtle at all - and since the hearing was being held on teh 1701-D a lot of the crew would know the situation first hand.
The entire episode was anything but subtle and had the Admiral Satie had a mustache, it would have been twirling hard by the midle of the episode; and twisted beyond recognition by the end.
Jean Simmons (a truly great and classic Hollywood actress - how they got her to do a TNG episode I'll never understand/know) played the hell out of the material she was given and the performance was the most interesting aspect of the episode. The rest of it was so by the numbers predictable it was somewhat boring for me.
The episode itself was so predictable - I knew the entire plot and ending (and just wondered when she'd hit Picard with the Borg incident, not 'if'); 10 minutes in.
I also felt they did the character of Worf 'dirty' by have him be the 'blind one' who had no idea what Satie was doing until he hit him with the TNG S4 'Data's Day' incident calling him out for not realizing the Ambassador was a Rumulan operative (Never mind that Starfleet and the Federation government was also blind to that fact for years prior.
)(Plus Adm. Satie's whole background story of "Discovering/Stopping an alien ilfiltration to Starfleet" seemed out of the blue because IF they were talking about the situation the 1701-D was involved in during the TNG S1 episode Conspiracy; that was in fact Picard, Data, Riker, and Crusher who ultimately discovered and ended that incident. If there was in fact yet ANOTHER incident, it would have been nice if they had an actual story on taht to give 'Adm. Satie' some real weight with the audience.)
The act (i.e., trying to improve her position in this "debate", regardless of relevancy or legal consequences) was clear, but the twisting of the knife (i.e., wounding someone on an emotional level, when she ought to know better and not even as a high-ranking Starfleet personality, just as a mature human being) being recognized as an actual evil is another story. It wasn't big, loud or flashy; all the same, it was wrong.
Last edited:
I think she arrived wearing a black hat.
Don't forget the Formal Hearing in Mudd's Women (with hot women and sweaty men) where Harry Mudd is exposed for illegal operation of a vessel:
Video sampling: https://video.search.yahoo.com/vide...600&w=337&l=53&age=1755093694&fr=yfp-t-s&tt=b
Or Spock's mutiny trial, presided over by Janice Lester in Kirk's body.
While it was actually the b-story of the episode and only seen in news footage, there were the hearings about Captain Freeman's alleged involvement in the destruction of Pakled Planet.
I enjoyed the Sam Cogley novel immensely.
By the way, Tony Isabella is now Jenny Blake Isabella. She's now living as her true self.
Similar threads
