What if Voyager was a different class of ship?

[Frostscape One]

OVERUSE of the Borg. You do understand the meaning of the word 'overuse', right? If not, let me help you: it's using something more often than is needed or necessary.

"UNITY" was a fairly fresh take on the Borg with a planet of ex-Borgs. "SCORPION" was the first time the Borg got beat immediately by a legitimately stronger, better opponent.

If VOY kept the Borg encounters to just those two occasions, no one could accuse them of overuse. Which was the fundamental problem of the Borg on VOY.

 

[Ragitsu]

Even at its strongest, the Dominion would have been steamrolled by The Borg.

 

[Anwar]

If VOY kept the Borg encounters to just those two occasions, no one could accuse them of overuse. Which was the fundamental problem of the Borg on VOY.

Those two encounters were also considered to be part of the "Borg Decay", the audience felt every appearance mishandled them and both of these stories damaged the Borg's image. Especially Scorpion.

There wasn't one Borg story VOY did that the audience felt was "done right".

Of course, Farscape does the same thing by having the Scarrans be introduced as nigh unbeatable and yet the Moya crew keep defeating them.

It didn't help that VOY was never able to make its own series-specific enemies partly due to audience reception making them give up on trying to make their own antagonists

 

[Frostscape One]

Those two encounters were also considered to be part of the "Borg Decay", the audience felt every appearance mishandled them and both of these stories damaged the Borg's image. Especially Scorpion.

There wasn't one Borg story VOY did that the audience felt was "done right".

Of course, Farscape does the same thing by having the Scarrans be introduced as nigh unbeatable and yet the Moya crew keep defeating them.

It didn't help that VOY was never able to make its own series-specific enemies partly due to audience reception making them give up on trying to make their own antagonists

Moya didn't beat the Scarrans again and again. A single soldier, okay. Like "Look at the Princess, Part 3: The Maltese Crichton" or "Won't Get Fooled Again", but they were beaten by numbers (D'Argo, Scorpius, AND Crichton in one instance) or sheer luck (Scorpy neural clone helping Crichton in the other instance).

Crichton on Talyn used a wormhole to destroy a carrier, but that was certainly not the norm. Toward the end, they scored a victory, too.

But two Scarran group encounters across 4 seasons? Compare that against VOY encountering and defeating the Borg at least two times PER SEASON after Seven was brought on. That's a minimum of 8 times. Definitely overused. The Scarrans were not.


And VOY would not have a single adversary for too long, just by virtue of constantly heading AWAY from that region. Of course they would be going through a bunch of villains throughout its run.

 

[Candleicious Ghost]

I always wondered why after 7 years over in the DQ the ship came back in more or less the same form it had left Earth. I'm thinking that given the time over there the ship should have returned to Earth vastly different from all the technology or repairs that they should have made / done over that time.

 

[Anwar]

Moya didn't beat the Scarrans again and again. A single soldier, okay. Like "Look at the Princess, Part 3: The Maltese Crichton" or "Won't Get Fooled Again", but they were beaten by numbers (D'Argo, Scorpius, AND Crichton in one instance) or sheer luck (Scorpy neural clone helping Crichton in the other instance).

Crichton on Talyn used a wormhole to destroy a carrier, but that was certainly not the norm. Toward the end, they scored a victory, too.

And I'm saying that if "Scorpion" had been the one big storyline they ever did with the Borg and then never encountered them again, they'd still be called "overused" and "mishandled". Voyager couldn't do anything right, as far as the audience was concerned.

I don't recall the Scarrans winning one battle in any of the times they encountered Moya.

And VOY would not have a single adversary for too long, just by virtue of constantly heading AWAY from that region. Of course they would be going through a bunch of villains throughout its run.

Another error with the premise. In Farscape no matter where they went in the Uncharted Territories or Tormented Space, they always kept running into the Peacekeepers.

 

[Frostscape One]

And I'm saying that if "Scorpion" had been the one big storyline they ever did with the Borg and then never encountered them again, they'd still be called "overused" and "mishandled". Voyager couldn't do anything right, as far as the audience was concerned.

I don't recall the Scarrans winning one battle in any of the times they encountered Moya.



Another error with the premise. In Farscape no matter where they went in the Uncharted Territories or Tormented Space, they always kept running into the Peacekeepers.

The Scarrans encountered Moya herself only once (the end part of season 4), and that was not even a battle situation. Difficult to win a battle if you didn't have one to begin with.

The only battle scenario the Scarrans had was with Talyn, and that ended with them destroyed because the wormhole weapon knowledge was unlocked in Crichton's head. AND it cost him his life. (Plus the Scarran ship didn't even reach Talyn... it was destroyed before it got close.)


The Peacekeepers were actively hunting Moya... first by Crais, then by Scorpius, then Grayza. So they were going to run into the Peacekeepers. The Borg weren't hunting Voyager... that ship just kept running into the Borg. (Not to mention actively seeking out the Borg multiple times.) Big difference in approaches.

 

[Anwar]

The Scarrans encountered Moya herself only once (the end part of season 4), and that was not even a battle situation. Difficult to win a battle if you didn't have one to begin with.

John killing the Scarran Ambassador in "Kiss the Princess", then in "Won't get fooled again", and then "Season of Death".

If VOY did that and had them destroy Borg Drones they ran into the audience reaction would be "There's no way VOY could destroy even a single Borg drone on an Away Mission."

The only battle scenario the Scarrans had was with Talyn, and that ended with them destroyed because the wormhole weapon knowledge was unlocked in Crichton's head.

And if VOY had used a Wormhole to create a giant Solar Cannon that obliterated a Cube in an instant?

The Peacekeepers were actively hunting Moya... first by Crais, then by Scorpius, then Grayza. So they were going to run into the Peacekeepers. The Borg weren't hunting Voyager... that ship just kept running into the Borg. (Not to mention actively seeking out the Borg multiple times.) Big difference in approaches.

When VOY had the Kazon and Vidiians actively hunt them, all they got were complaints. So even when they used Non-Borg enemies all they got was negativity.

Meaning if the Borg had been actively hunting them, the response would be the same.

 

[Frostscape One]

John killing the Scarran Ambassador in "Kiss the Princess", then in "Won't get fooled again", and then "Season of Death".

If VOY did that and had them destroy Borg Drones they ran into the audience reaction would be "There's no way VOY could destroy even a single Borg drone on an Away Mission."



And if VOY had used a Wormhole to create a giant Solar Cannon that obliberated a Cube in an instant?



When VOY had the Kazon and Vidiians actively hunt them, all they got were complaints. So even when they used Non-Borg enemies all they got was negativity.

Meaning if the Borg had been actively hunting them, the response would be the same.

And in each of the instances a Scarran is killed, it was a LONE Scarran, not a group. And each time was not an easy kill. It took THREE people to kill the ambassador, took the neural clone to simulate death when he was captured and the Scarran being stupid enough to get close enough to put the beeping pulse gun into his mouth to blow up his head, and it also took THREE people to kill Plonek in "SEASON OF DEATH". Hardly easy compared to how VOY kept beating the Borg.

And the Borg didn't attack Voyager with single drones. They had AT LEAST a ship attacking, and were STILL beaten many times. FAR more times than the Scarrans even appeared on FARSCAPE, let alone a battle with them (a single Scarran or otherwise).


Regarding the Kazon and Vidiians... they were done after season 2. Which made sense because they were well past their territory at thst point and those races couldn't sustain a chase due to no more backup being around.

If the Borg WERE hunting Voyager, it would have been a VERY short series because the Borg had transwarp conduits AND THOUSANDS OF SHIPS. Even the plot armor of UPN couldn't help the ship survive that... not without it making zero sense.

 

[Anwar]

And in each of the instances a Scarran is killed, it was a LONE Scarran, not a group.

And I'm saying that if the VOY crew ran into Drones on an Away mission and found a way to defeat them/kill them, they'd somehow be ripped into for that too.

Regarding the Kazon and Vidiians... they were done after season 2. Which made sense because they were well past their territory at thst point and those races couldn't sustain a chase due to no more backup being around.

A mistake, because recurring antagonists help flesh out the setting and world more. The Cylons in NuBSG kept chasing the Ragtag Fleet absolutely everywhere no matter where the Cylon's had settled before.

If the Borg WERE hunting Voyager, it would have been a VERY short series because the Borg had transwarp conduits AND THOUSANDS OF SHIPS. Even the plot armor of UPN couldn't help the ship survive that... not without it making zero sense.

Not if it was...an alien ship with unknown capabilities that meant the Borg couldn't easily track them.

And ideally, the Delta Quadrant should have been full of aliens as powerful, if not more powerful than the Borg. The Borg thus can't spare to send a lot of ships after Voyager because they're barely able to stalemate these other aliens they're fighting. The problem was that the audience couldn't accept that there was even ONE species capable to fighting the Borg and being immune to assimilation. There should have been dozens, if not hundreds of alien species like that.

 

[Frostscape One]

And I'm saying that if the VOY crew ran into Drones on an Away mission and found a way to defeat them/kill them, they'd somehow be ripped into for that too.



A mistake, because recurring antagonists help flesh out the setting and world more. The Cylons in NuBSG kept chasing the Ragtag Fleet absolutely everywhere no matter where the Cylon's had settled before.



Not if it was...an alien ship with unknown capabilities that meant the Borg couldn't easily track them.

And ideally, the Delta Quadrant should have been full of aliens as powerful, if not more powerful than the Borg. The Borg thus can't spare to send a lot of ships after Voyager because they're barely able to stalemate these other aliens they're fighting. The problem was that the audience couldn't accept that there was even ONE species capable to fighting the Borg and being immune to assimilation. There should have been dozens, if not hundreds of alien species like that.

A few drones can be taken out because it takes a short time for the collective to adapt. That's not an issue. Getting past a large ship full of them IS.


How was it a mistake to go past the Kazon and Vidiians? They were in their region for 2 YEARS! It was ALREADY a long time to have them around. Did you expect them to be attacking Voyager all 7 seasons? That's just plain stupid, because that would mean only one thing: THEY AREN'T MAKING ANY PROGRESS!!!!

Once done with them, they can encounter other recurring villains, and they did. The Hirogen and Malon, for example... they appeared multiple times.

Comparing villains here to the Cylons of BSG is apples and oranges... there weren't a plethora of aliens in BSG. Unlike VOY and the STAR TREK universe, where almost every star system seems to have sentient aliens.


And hundreds of species better than the Borg? As presented in TNG, that wasn't likely AT ALL. Going that route guaranteed them losing their bite and threat before their first encounter in the Delta Quadrant.



Clearly, we are not going to make any progress in convincing each other. We'll just have to agree to disagree.

 

[Mage]

OVERUSE of the Borg. You do understand the meaning of the word 'overuse', right? If not, let me help you: it's using something more often than is needed or necessary.

"UNITY" was a fairly fresh take on the Borg with a planet of ex-Borgs. "SCORPION" was the first time the Borg got beat immediately by a legitimately stronger, better opponent.

If VOY kept the Borg encounters to just those two occasions, no one could accuse them of overuse. Which was the fundamental problem of the Borg on VOY.

Well, I can understand that in the same year/season that all happened, we also got First Contact. Considering how often we got The Borg in TNG, I can kinda guess some fans felt that was already too much.
I will say this... at the end, Voyager used the Borg a lot. But for me, I enjoyed every episode they were in.