I’m not specifically dissing ENT. My post was more about prequels in general.
Why was Enterprise received so poorly?
- Thread starter dcm
- Start date
I’m not specifically dissing ENT. My post was more about prequels in general.
Because it sucked. It was unnecessary… we didn’t need to go backwards in time… Trek is about going forward. The ship design was incredibly lazy… just an upside-down Akira redone with a gunmetal Franklin Mint finish. It altered too much established canon right out of the gate. All the threats/enemies were ass. The Suliban were meh, and looked like they were made out of Nickelodeon Floam. The Temporal Cold War was retarded, and predictably went nowhere, and the Xindi and that whole arc was complete garbage, and also went nowhere, and realizing they couldn’t save the arc, they resorted to an equally retarded space-Nazi episode with Buffy Vampire rejects dressed as Nazis. And the show had a lot of egg to wipe off its face with “In A Mirror, Darkly”, which proved that the TOS look worked just fine in modern HD. The Vulcans were portrayed as colossal assholes. The show introduced multiple TNG-era species and locations far too soon. They were first to ruin the look of the Gorn.
The show had a handful of REALLY GOOD episodes, but they were few and far between. The episode with the Cogenitor, the episode where Phlox develops the cure for the Valakians, but debates if he should administer it, the episode with the grown clone of Trip. THOSE are the kinds of major-impact stories that the show should have consistently told. The first season was the best, because it was the closest to what the show should have been - ship’s logs where the crew laments how they’ve been at high warp for months, with nothing so much as a Class-M planet in sight… yet. Space would have been far bigger than even in the TOS-era… things should have seemed MUCH farther, especially at only warp 5. But as the series went on, space became much smaller, with seemingly lots of places within easy reach.
And then you have the ENT finale…
The show had a handful of REALLY GOOD episodes, but they were few and far between. The episode with the Cogenitor, the episode where Phlox develops the cure for the Valakians, but debates if he should administer it, the episode with the grown clone of Trip. THOSE are the kinds of major-impact stories that the show should have consistently told. The first season was the best, because it was the closest to what the show should have been - ship’s logs where the crew laments how they’ve been at high warp for months, with nothing so much as a Class-M planet in sight… yet. Space would have been far bigger than even in the TOS-era… things should have seemed MUCH farther, especially at only warp 5. But as the series went on, space became much smaller, with seemingly lots of places within easy reach.
And then you have the ENT finale…
.....you seem fun.
I do? Darn.
One of the biggest problems I had trying to watch Enterprise it was shown on Saturday night and was constantly interrupted by football or baseball or Basketball games and it was hard to see it and one time I had to wait until summer to see the shows I missed when they repeated Desert Crossing I had to wait a few months before I got to watch it for the first time.
The set design fucking sucked.
It looked like they brought in the set designers from Buck Rogers in the 25 Century. I don't know who decided to glue those stupid number pads and blinky lights to every wall but I hope they never worked in television again. It's clear they had no idea what to do with the ship controls once they got rid of the LCARS displays, so it was back to the glued-on-buttons and blinking lights of the 70s.
It looked like they brought in the set designers from Buck Rogers in the 25 Century. I don't know who decided to glue those stupid number pads and blinky lights to every wall but I hope they never worked in television again. It's clear they had no idea what to do with the ship controls once they got rid of the LCARS displays, so it was back to the glued-on-buttons and blinking lights of the 70s.
Hard disagree.
The set design for the NX-01 was the absolute best of the Berman-era, imo. All the sets felt functional and practical, while still feeling like an advancement of our current tech, and a precursor to the previously established Trek design aesthetics. Everything from the Bridge to the absolutely amazing Main Engineering set was the result of craftsmen and designers working at their best.
Huh? I think the production design in general is something the show absolutely nailed, sets, costumes etc. were great. The problem was mostly writing and in part casting.
I have to agree.
There was nothing wrong with the uniforms. Nothing wrong with the displayed technology. Nothing wrong with the colors chosen.
What was wrong, were the scripts. The powers that be over simplified everything...
Look at it another way...
Do you really believe that the crew would have been that innocent?
Most of what, out of necessity, going on conversational wise would have been double checks. The NX-01 Enterprise is an experimental ship, so, an intense eye would have been kept on everything. 'Tense ' is the best description, not in a bad sense, but professionally. Maybe a joke cracked once in a while.
But if the writers couldn't come up with proper dialog, then take it off the bridge.
Now keep in mind that it is ninety years, or close to it, after the first warp flight by humans. It high warp that is the problem. Not warp itself.
So where would the drama come from?
Ensemble groups...
Three or four of them, then every fifth episode, a group that hasn't been seen yet. But off the bridge.
There was nothing wrong with the uniforms. Nothing wrong with the displayed technology. Nothing wrong with the colors chosen.
What was wrong, were the scripts. The powers that be over simplified everything...
Look at it another way...
Do you really believe that the crew would have been that innocent?
Most of what, out of necessity, going on conversational wise would have been double checks. The NX-01 Enterprise is an experimental ship, so, an intense eye would have been kept on everything. 'Tense ' is the best description, not in a bad sense, but professionally. Maybe a joke cracked once in a while.
But if the writers couldn't come up with proper dialog, then take it off the bridge.
Now keep in mind that it is ninety years, or close to it, after the first warp flight by humans. It high warp that is the problem. Not warp itself.
So where would the drama come from?
Ensemble groups...
Three or four of them, then every fifth episode, a group that hasn't been seen yet. But off the bridge.
Ffor me, of everything that was wrong with this show, the sets were the verrrrry least of it. My only problem with them was the sheer overload of grey. But that’s a problem that began with Voyager.
At the risk of repeating myself ad nauseam, the problem with the show was that Berman, Braga, and UPN had absolutely no idea what it was supposed to be about, other than some vague notion about the formation of the Federation. The show ended up just being a VOY clone for the first two years because of that, since they didn't know what else to do with it other than to copy what they'd already done before.
This. Enterprise's greatest fault was betraying its own premise right from the premier episode. Plus, the pre-TOS ship goes from Earth to the Klingon homeworld in 4 days? GTFO. The Klingons would have conquered Earth a century prior.
There is so much that could have been done with that series, and done well. S4 showed us some glimpses of what could have been. But as we say on Earth, ces't la vie.
There were only two ways this series could have worked, at least in terms of premise.
The first is that it was set further back than it was so that it could be what it was claimed to be, "the start of Star Trek." That can be the birth of the Federation but it can also be humanity's first steps into deep space. That would have been about thirty or so years earlier on a ship that doesn't look like an existing ship except for maybe the nacelles. The Conestoga would have been perfect. Humans have absolutely NOTHING close to phasers and the transporter is something only a few other species have mastered after working on it for centuries. Also, the only species they meet that we already know other than Vulcans are Andorians and Tellarites and any other species from TOS that were known by humanity for over a century. Finally, the ship would be called something other than Enterprise, maybe Challenger or Endeavour.
The second is going forward to a few years after the founding of the Federation to show the true "start of Star Trek:" the very first starship designed, built, and crewed by members of the new Federation. Such a ship must have existed at some point. How did humans, Andorians, Tellarites, Vulcans, and maybe other non-UFP species get along in close quarters for long periods of space exploration? Spock was the first Vulcan in Starfleet, but perhaps some worked as advisors or engineers on such a ship.
All of that aside, fresh creators were needed. Berman and Braga should have handed off the show to new showrunners and let them do something different. That said, you'd also need a studio/network that doesn't hate science fiction, which CBS had just become when Moonves took over. No matter how you slice it, Season 5 was just doomed from the start.
The first is that it was set further back than it was so that it could be what it was claimed to be, "the start of Star Trek." That can be the birth of the Federation but it can also be humanity's first steps into deep space. That would have been about thirty or so years earlier on a ship that doesn't look like an existing ship except for maybe the nacelles. The Conestoga would have been perfect. Humans have absolutely NOTHING close to phasers and the transporter is something only a few other species have mastered after working on it for centuries. Also, the only species they meet that we already know other than Vulcans are Andorians and Tellarites and any other species from TOS that were known by humanity for over a century. Finally, the ship would be called something other than Enterprise, maybe Challenger or Endeavour.
The second is going forward to a few years after the founding of the Federation to show the true "start of Star Trek:" the very first starship designed, built, and crewed by members of the new Federation. Such a ship must have existed at some point. How did humans, Andorians, Tellarites, Vulcans, and maybe other non-UFP species get along in close quarters for long periods of space exploration? Spock was the first Vulcan in Starfleet, but perhaps some worked as advisors or engineers on such a ship.
All of that aside, fresh creators were needed. Berman and Braga should have handed off the show to new showrunners and let them do something different. That said, you'd also need a studio/network that doesn't hate science fiction, which CBS had just become when Moonves took over. No matter how you slice it, Season 5 was just doomed from the start.
I agree completely, and this is how I always envisioned it. Including the ship being more like the Conestoga.
Space is dark, cold, and foreboding. That's what TOS implied, especially about the pre-TOS period. The Constitution-class were the first multi-role starships capable of comfortably and quickly exploring the frontier.
But that was not the case pre-TOS.
If we go closer to the beginning, it's more like what happened to the S.S. Valiant.
The Valiant, one of the first warp ships humanity sends into the stars, gets off-course. 'Magnetic space storm.' A whole misadventure ensues. Ship is lost for 200 years.
That's what interstellar exploration was like at the beginning. There's a wonderful animation out there called "Death of the Valiant." That would be part of the vibe for an "Enterprise" series.
So the technology is really clunky and uncertain. Just going to warp is a big deal. Especially in early seasons. There would be a countdown and everything. People fastening seatbelts or strapping into crash harnesses. Inertial dampeners aren't perfectly tuned.
No transporters. Shuttles only. The ship can land if it has to.
If the NX Enterprise is an experimental ship, then it should look and act like one. Nothing is 'routine' about a mission to another star system. Including the smallest practices. Many interstellar 'missions' were one-way. Either by design, or by accident.
It would also be more 'political,' in a way that would build up to your proposed second series.
For example, I recently wrote [in another thread]:
I feel that a better "Enterprise" series would have explored more the contradictions between the exploratory and military aspects, being embodied directly in agencies such as UESPA and Earth Starfleet.
For example, Enterprise [let's face it, a different ship really] would have been launched by UESPA to follow up on its initial probes and colonization missions. In a more sober series, a "mission" could take half a season, and "Enterprise" would be part of a flotilla. It doesn't have the capabilities to do all the jobs.
Just following up on one colony could take like, six episodes. There are fewer colonies to explore in that era, more intrigue, and it takes longer to travel between them.
As things get more complicated, with the introduction of Klingons, Romulans, etc..., Archer's UESPA mission would start to really conflict with Starfleet. Who want a more defensive approach. And part of Archer's job would involve navigating these bureaucracies and the conflicts between them. UESPA funding is always in danger of being pulled, as politicians squabble back on Earth. [He'd probably need a political / diplomatic attache even more in this revised series.]
And because Earth is still recovering from world wars and the Eugenic War, the remnants of nation-state federations that exist on United Earth are jockeying for position, prestige, contracts, trying to push Enterprise in this direction or that. Altering it's mission. Pacific 201 explored this a little.]
[After posting that, I wrote some further notes]:
"Enterprise" is on a tight-leash. It is constantly reporting back home, whenever communications allow. [Often, they don't.]
The ship represents a massive investment on the part of UESPA, and possibly Earth militaries. The whole United Earth, which supercedes the UN, is breathing down their necks.
The whole mission plan was probably created in detailed form by a committee back on Earth, with different paths to follow depending on circumstances. Which would quickly come into contact with reality, and have to be further revised. Archer would be struggling against Earth bureaucracies over the mission plan. [Very limited time and resources to make decisions about.]
So Archer is not just a dashing cruiser captain exploring the far frontier. He has to become an Earth politician, of sorts. At least navigate it. He didn't expect it to such a degree when he accepted the commission. [The whole structure of managing a 'starship' is very new and shaky at this point.]
The ship wouldn't be called "Enterprise," because that introduces problems. It would perhaps be called "Intrepid," because our daring crew is intrepid. Or one of the TOS Constitution names, or named after the brave Valiant.
The "Intrepid" could even be the S.S. Emmette of the Ganges-class. A very rudimentary ship. But if it is storied enough, it could eventually become the delta symbol that is used on Enterprise, and eventually Starfleet. It could receive upgrades, such as a secondary-hull.
Honestly, the Conestoga would have been great, if going for a more rudimentary approach.
Maybe the Intrepid's first mission could be rescuing the XCV-330 S.S. Enterprise from some kind of disaster. That would be a nice tongue-in-cheek tie-in to TMP, and showing that this is not the settled Federation of TOS and beyond.
When things get closer to the Romulan war, there could be a need to produce a vast number of ships. Hence the Daedalus. Which could be the first "Starfleet" vessel. That would explain a lot.
This is probably the way I would have done things. This way you avoid the messiness of having to depict the formation of the Federation (something that most fans probably already had a preconceived notion about) that B&B weren't even able to pull off successfully anyway. You also avoid the Romulan war, for the same reason. Have Starfleet be founded when the Federation was founded, not an Earth organization that was carried over. Have the ships' classes and registries the same as what we were used to, not letters and NX registries that mean something different than what the Federation Starfleet uses. And have the saucer/nacelle design be exclusive to the Federation, not yet another Earth design carried over.
This is not correct.
That works. I still think UESPA might conflict with other Earth agencies, not to mention everyone else.
But "Starfleet" could be a post-Federation development.
The hero ship of the show would not start with the primary/secondary hull arrangement. Although if it is a warp delta, it could get a secondary hull after Starfleet is founded.
With regard to auxiliary craft, I should add that shuttles are a conceit to TOS and TNG.
The ship should use landers. Big bulky things that land in a showy way. Like the Vulcan lander in First Contact.
But "Starfleet" could be a post-Federation development.
The hero ship of the show would not start with the primary/secondary hull arrangement. Although if it is a warp delta, it could get a secondary hull after Starfleet is founded.
With regard to auxiliary craft, I should add that shuttles are a conceit to TOS and TNG.
The ship should use landers. Big bulky things that land in a showy way. Like the Vulcan lander in First Contact.
Certain things would loom large in the series: Zefram Cochrane, early ill-fated star voyages, the aftermath of Earth's devastating wars, the desire to rebuild for peace despite generations of war.
I agree what with comments I've seen about the diversity of the crew. Even in 2001, Enterprise was too Anglo-American. It needed to be more representative of the Earth's population. Lily Sloane would have been an obvious choice as a character in the series.
I agree what with comments I've seen about the diversity of the crew. Even in 2001, Enterprise was too Anglo-American. It needed to be more representative of the Earth's population. Lily Sloane would have been an obvious choice as a character in the series.
Lily Sloane would have been over a hundred years old by ENT.
I am referring to Riley's concept, in which the show takes place about 30 years earlier than Enterprise. Sorry, I should have made that more clear.
In fact, I'd consider starting the series about 30-40 years after First Contact with the Vulcans. We're talking warp 3 or 3.5 ships. They would have to use 'subspace lanes' to get anywhere with reasonable speed. Which would limit their movement to places that would become important 'core' territories by TOS.
That would help explain some of why things are the way they are in TOS. Why certain civilizations were encountered first. Why some areas of space are more populated. How primitive warp vessels could end up so far out in TOS.
As for Sloane being too old in the Enterprise series, it could have introduced one of her descendants. You'd want that connection to First Contact, I think. Whether it's direct, or fainter.
The existence of the Conestoga and the warp deltas in Enterprise is frustrating, because it shows that the VFX team knew exactly what to do. But they were being overridden by the network, forcing Enterprise to look more like a TNG ship. Or more bland, at least.
The warp deltas are particularly good, because they are 'half-a-starship.' Really, a warp ship that uses impulse drive. The one in the opening sequence might even have actual rockets. Roddenbury didn't want any on the Enterprise, but this isn't the Enterprise.
Overall, I always assumed a prequel series would be like what Riley described: something much closer to Cochrane's first flight. A much more rugged and foreboding frontier, where nothing is routine or taken for granted. Dark and gray and carbon-scarred ships. More 'Botany Bay' and 'Friendship One' than the TNG ships backported to 2150.
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