True, but it's 16M that is now not in their pockets because they want a merger with Skydance, so despite doing nothing wrong and having a strong case, they capitulated.
Star Trek Voyager Remastered in 4K
- Thread starter The Real Sonic Star Trek
- Start date
I’m not arguing that, but since that money would not have gone into making a VOY or DS9 remaster anyway, it’s kind of a moot point.
They must have spent significantly more than $40m on development of all the Star Trek film projects that never happened over the past decade.
Ah well. I'm resigned that DS9 and VGR won't ever get a proper remaster. Best we can hope for is an AI-assisted upscale when the technology is just about enough to get away with it. It'll be a huge missed opportunity.
Ah well. I'm resigned that DS9 and VGR won't ever get a proper remaster. Best we can hope for is an AI-assisted upscale when the technology is just about enough to get away with it. It'll be a huge missed opportunity.
The true tragedy: TNG's "Birthright" contains the only genuinely HD Bashir we may ever witness and, likewise, TNG's "Firstborn" is the only genuine example of HD Quark (and, even then, it is displayed through a viewscreen...not in the flesh).
We got a little more in "What We Left Behind" too. But only a little.
16 million to Voyager, and 16 million to DS9 is a rounding error.
Even on the studio's worst day, that's a rounding error.
If you've been collecting DVDs as Day 1 purcheses since 2000, and kept a constant streaming subscription to Paramount,
you've forked over 6500 bucks at least, possibly more.
You have to continue to buy every item in the back catalog, and hope they're so generous with something that wouldn't even pay for a modern TV episode, much less a pilot.
IMO, a true rescan is a maintenance fee at Paramount.
They ask odd questions, and frame things to get answers.
I literally feel like they set DS9 and Voyager's remasters up for failure and have been doing so for the last 11 years.
IMO, 16 million dollars is microbudget today, and by David Lynch's standard was low balling a production.
If remastering 170 or so hours of content is 16 million, that's a bargain.
It's silly to say that's too expensive, extremely silly.
It's interesting what gets the treatment.
Knight Rider is getting the 4K treatment. That's the first I've heard of show produced during that period of time receiving one. It's only 4 seasons long. But it's a NBC show.
For blu-ray, NBC also did the Incredible Hulk TV series.
Let's see how well Knight Rider does on 4K before expecting any Star Trek series to get it.
These shows really do need it. On my modern 77" OLED, I can definitely tell with older stuff.
Knight Rider is getting the 4K treatment. That's the first I've heard of show produced during that period of time receiving one. It's only 4 seasons long. But it's a NBC show.
For blu-ray, NBC also did the Incredible Hulk TV series.
Let's see how well Knight Rider does on 4K before expecting any Star Trek series to get it.
These shows really do need it. On my modern 77" OLED, I can definitely tell with older stuff.
The Incredible Hulk likely had a conformed film negative, I'm assuming that was mainly practical FX (Obviously no CG in the 70s, but that doesn't mean they wouldn't have used an Non linear tape editing scheme and analog video FX for text.)
Knight Rider...that one is pretty interesting, but you don't hassle the hoff, XD.
There's a rumor that Universal demanded a conformed negative up to the 90s, hence...Seaquest DSV having a bluray release.
And Quantum Leap.
I still think they should have done that instead on wasting money on Discovery.
they could've done both and had money to spare.
Honestly they should've had money to spare the whole time.
There's no literally no reason why they couldn't have scanned and cleaned the live action footage and plates at least.
But, I have an idea,
Star Trek The Legacy Collection probably should compromise remasters of DS9 and Voyager to start with, as well as a new 4k scan of TOS.
Now, the kicker is, TOS shouldn't take that long, but I would prioritize DS9 and Voyager as they're the shows that got neglected for the longest period of time.
IMO, 32 million dollars is chump change, that's literally the budget of 4 episodes of a modern Trek show, to get those others remastered.
It allows the fanbase to feel good will, it's also roughly the budget of "The Green Mile".
I would argue it's a catalog maintenance fee, and fans since the 90s periodically update their collections, and if they've paid 6700 bucks over the years (That's the price of a good used Toyota.), they paid with the maintenance fee of a high definition scan for DS9 and Voyager in mind.
I've read Bill Hunt's take, and imo, it feels like a hostage negotiation.
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If you frame the question badly enough, you can justify whatever answer you wanted in the first place.
The baseline is, I don't think the fans should have to purchase the entire back catalog of content they don't want to justify a remaster of the content that they do want.
If they want to wait for a discount, so be it, they've already double and tripple dipped on this product.
But...Bluray, and 4k Bluray would be a collector's thing, streaming, itunes, and digital market platforms as well as streaming also make up that market.
There is a robust amount of ways to satisfy die hard collectors, and fans who just want an HD option, (Everyone can get what they want, and the company can make a profit.)
Star Trek should be a free market.
Voyager, DS9 and Enterprise share the same umbrella, but they're separate products.
I don't care about Enterprise, but I still now own the entire back catalog now.
Mind you...most people say the VFX have to be recreated from scrach...
blog.trekcore.com
...and they don't.
Stepped up and composited? Absolutely.
and in the 1990s these were state of the art VFX, by todays standards, they're basic bitch VFX, expected from any low budget production.
They're common, and the use of practical FX, and VFX packages from TNG:R should make them even more affordable.
You could literally piggyback off of the Rodenberry archive for ship models when you need CG models for shots.
People raise a stink about them, but imo, they should be extremely cheap to do.
I don't think any argument I've heard about the delay is acceptable.
It allows the fanbase to feel good will, it's also roughly the budget of "The Green Mile".
I would argue it's a catalog maintenance fee, and fans since the 90s periodically update their collections, and if they've paid 6700 bucks over the years (That's the price of a good used Toyota.), they paid with the maintenance fee of a high definition scan for DS9 and Voyager in mind.
I've read Bill Hunt's take, and imo, it feels like a hostage negotiation.
In which we answer the question: “What can Star Trek fans do to encourage CBS to release Deep Space Nine on Blu-ray?”
[Editor’s Note: Be sure to like TheDigitalBits.com page on Facebook for great Blu-ray, DVD and film discussion with other readers and for live updates on your mobile device when new content is posted here!] First up today, a quick side note: Our own Tim Salmons has turned in a re...
The baseline is, I don't think the fans should have to purchase the entire back catalog of content they don't want to justify a remaster of the content that they do want.
If they want to wait for a discount, so be it, they've already double and tripple dipped on this product.
But...Bluray, and 4k Bluray would be a collector's thing, streaming, itunes, and digital market platforms as well as streaming also make up that market.
There is a robust amount of ways to satisfy die hard collectors, and fans who just want an HD option, (Everyone can get what they want, and the company can make a profit.)
Star Trek should be a free market.
Voyager, DS9 and Enterprise share the same umbrella, but they're separate products.
I don't care about Enterprise, but I still now own the entire back catalog now.
Mind you...most people say the VFX have to be recreated from scrach...
Deep Space Nine in High Definition: One Step Closer?
Two years ago, fans thought it would be impossible that a show like Star Trek: The Next Generation could ever be remastered in high definition. Like spinoffs Deep Space Nine and Voyager…
blog.trekcore.com
Stepped up and composited? Absolutely.
and in the 1990s these were state of the art VFX, by todays standards, they're basic bitch VFX, expected from any low budget production.
They're common, and the use of practical FX, and VFX packages from TNG:R should make them even more affordable.
You could literally piggyback off of the Rodenberry archive for ship models when you need CG models for shots.
People raise a stink about them, but imo, they should be extremely cheap to do.
I don't think any argument I've heard about the delay is acceptable.
$32m might be "chump change" to you, but they still need to cover the investment.
The obstacle is that there's probably not a clear case that remastering these shows is going to bring in enough new subscribers to cover the costs.
The problem is that Trekkies are likely subscribed anyway. Personally I only pay monthly when there's new Star Trek to watch. I cancelled after SNW finished. Maybe DS9/VGR in 4K would make me stay on all-year round, but I'm not convinced by that. So they'd likely make $0 additional out of my pocket.
That's anecdotal, but probably not a unique case.
I've thought for ages that they should make a big thing out of it and release the remastered episodes weekly, when there isn't a new series of SNW or SFA airing. It would be a relatively low cost way of maintaining fan interest throughout the dry spells and keeping social media engagement going.
The obstacle is that there's probably not a clear case that remastering these shows is going to bring in enough new subscribers to cover the costs.
The problem is that Trekkies are likely subscribed anyway. Personally I only pay monthly when there's new Star Trek to watch. I cancelled after SNW finished. Maybe DS9/VGR in 4K would make me stay on all-year round, but I'm not convinced by that. So they'd likely make $0 additional out of my pocket.
That's anecdotal, but probably not a unique case.
I've thought for ages that they should make a big thing out of it and release the remastered episodes weekly, when there isn't a new series of SNW or SFA airing. It would be a relatively low cost way of maintaining fan interest throughout the dry spells and keeping social media engagement going.
The biggest issue is they would have to redo all the visual effects. That wasn’t a problem with TOS and TNG as it was mainly special effects.
It's chump change for any studio that can drop 150 million on a box office flop every time it turns around.
It's chump change for any company that spends 100 billion dollars to merge with half of Hollywood like "The Thing".
Why release them weekly?
You want to release a boxset, the whole point of an upgrade is to binge?
That being said, you could do alternate cuts of two parters, add deleted scenes and then crop the aspect ratio.
As for my next argument,
Mac and Me getting remastered into 4k wasn't going to sell but like what 2 copies?
Remastering Clueless in 4k isn't going to make back the budget of Clueless and profit at 3x.
The point is preservation.
Finally, if you dropped 6500 bucks across the franchise collecting home video releases since DVD releases were a thing,
I would argue that not only is 32million chump change to Paramount, it's a maintenance fee that fans expected the moment 1080p was demonstrated as the future of display technology.
If you don't want to update it, then don't upgrade everything else to 1080p displays and future proof the production.
It was shot on 35mm film, and in cases of later seasons was designed for a remaster to 16:9.
blog.trekcore.com
...they don't, they literally don't.
I posted it already, several key artists who worked on the show proved the VFX assets survive to this day.
They don't have to redo all of the FX, they can be stepped up in Blender.
As for beams and phasers, they built packages out during TNG:R, those exist.
They're basic bitch FX by today's standards.
As for TNG...they had to redo all of those FX in Adobe After FX, recomp and all.
That applied to shots of ships as well, I'd argue doing that is akin to CGI, and you'd just allocate money.
DS9 has a season and a half of CGI that's heavy, well, you don't have to scan filmed shots of ships entirely, you just have to step up some models and composite them.
It would literally be the same price.
Also.... It's so basic a fan can do it in his spare time on a desktop.
It's not AVATAR THE WAY OF THE WATER.
Also...TNG season 1's bluray has a featurette,
"Energized: Taking the Next Generation to the Next Level"
I recommend watching that to get a general idea of how much they had to do,
from scanning negatives to recompositing FX, to replacing CG that was used.
It's not difficult.
Finally, the hole goes so deep, all of Babylon 5's CGI models, and animation files survived from the 90s til today, and...
Could've also been stepped up.
It's chump change for any company that spends 100 billion dollars to merge with half of Hollywood like "The Thing".
Why release them weekly?
You want to release a boxset, the whole point of an upgrade is to binge?
That being said, you could do alternate cuts of two parters, add deleted scenes and then crop the aspect ratio.
As for my next argument,
Mac and Me getting remastered into 4k wasn't going to sell but like what 2 copies?
Remastering Clueless in 4k isn't going to make back the budget of Clueless and profit at 3x.
The point is preservation.
Finally, if you dropped 6500 bucks across the franchise collecting home video releases since DVD releases were a thing,
I would argue that not only is 32million chump change to Paramount, it's a maintenance fee that fans expected the moment 1080p was demonstrated as the future of display technology.
If you don't want to update it, then don't upgrade everything else to 1080p displays and future proof the production.
It was shot on 35mm film, and in cases of later seasons was designed for a remaster to 16:9.
Deep Space Nine in High Definition: One Step Closer?
Two years ago, fans thought it would be impossible that a show like Star Trek: The Next Generation could ever be remastered in high definition. Like spinoffs Deep Space Nine and Voyager…
blog.trekcore.com
I posted it already, several key artists who worked on the show proved the VFX assets survive to this day.
They don't have to redo all of the FX, they can be stepped up in Blender.
As for beams and phasers, they built packages out during TNG:R, those exist.
They're basic bitch FX by today's standards.
As for TNG...they had to redo all of those FX in Adobe After FX, recomp and all.
That applied to shots of ships as well, I'd argue doing that is akin to CGI, and you'd just allocate money.
DS9 has a season and a half of CGI that's heavy, well, you don't have to scan filmed shots of ships entirely, you just have to step up some models and composite them.
It would literally be the same price.
Also.... It's so basic a fan can do it in his spare time on a desktop.
It's not AVATAR THE WAY OF THE WATER.
Also...TNG season 1's bluray has a featurette,
"Energized: Taking the Next Generation to the Next Level"
I recommend watching that to get a general idea of how much they had to do,
from scanning negatives to recompositing FX, to replacing CG that was used.
It's not difficult.
Finally, the hole goes so deep, all of Babylon 5's CGI models, and animation files survived from the 90s til today, and...
Could've also been stepped up.
Obviously the fans want it to happen, including a lot of people at Paramount. But the financials clearly aren't persuasive and they haven't been able to make it happen yet. I'm sure people will keep pushing.
Last we heard, Paramount were looking to tender the effects work, but it fell through due to the merger.
Hopefully the new leadership will see the sense of doing it.
Last we heard, Paramount were looking to tender the effects work, but it fell through due to the merger.
Hopefully the new leadership will see the sense of doing it.
I don't think Paramount wants it to happen.
Financials don't matter as much as you think they do.
Severance runs 20 million an episode now, and doesn't pull the numbers to justify a 200 million dollar per season budget.
Alien Earth costs 70 million an episode now, the viewership is somewhere north of 400,000 people.
That means the profits for an episode of Alien Earth per week are -65million dollars.
Again, that can't work profitably for Disney.
The system's accounting department has a broad definition of how profits and tax writeoffs work.
If remastering DS9 cost 12 million dollars, it's chump change, it's 12 million for 178 hours of content and all takes.
*You're simply redoing post production.
Alien Earth is 500 million dollars an 8 episode season, outflanking Shogun's budget.
That, and it's a requirement for fans to buy the entire back catalog of Trek they don't want, Enterprise (etc.)
To glimpse what you want you have to watch 384 hours of content you don't care to watch, again, and again, and again.
That's sabotage, as Trek is a genre that has more content simply in a single franchise than one could manage to watch in a lifetime.
They tell the fans to write in for Star Trek Year One.
They tell the fans to write into Disney to put Kimmel back on the air.
IMO, keep applying pressure to Paramount on it.
Let Paramount and Skydance know you want DS9 and Voyager on bluray, and in HD, from the 35mm negative.
If you can afford to do half the crap they do, 12 million dollars to do a series is less than a single episode or movie, far less.
Far less than a CEO spends on McDonalds. Write them, and let them know you want to see it happen.
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That is absolute bullshit. At the end of the day, the movie business is just that - a business.
Why would Paramount give a shit about something happening on a network they don't own?
If you can get a mass-movement to start unsubscribing from Paramount Plus until HD remasters are announced of DS9 and VGR, that might be relevant, but that doesn’t seem likely, especially since the reason the remasters aren’t happening isn’t “the President threatened CBS to keep vintage Star Trek in SD or else.”
Who said anything about starting a mass movement because of Trump?
All I'm saying is you should write to paramount and make a request, why can't it be a casual thing?
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