What's Your Alternate Fate For Captain James T. Kirk after TOS/TUC?

[Warped9]

Things are very different today--everything has an origin, a middle and an ending or send-off.

But TOS, unlike all the live-action spinoff series that followed, had no origin (getting the gang together) story. Both "The Cage" and WNMHGB picked up when the ship and crew were already out there. When I look back at TOS I'm not bummed out there was no (now familiar) series finale, but wistfully disappointed we didn't get another season with more adventures. As I said upthread I'm fine with things left open ended.

Indeed most stories we encounter are open ended. Usually stories are just telling a chapter/event in characters' lives and you don't know what follows when the story is over.

Looking back any of the films could have served as a last instalment of the film run.
- If TMP had been the one and only film we could have assumed our heroes were still out there on new adventures.
- If TWOK had been the last instalment we could have assumed it was the last grand adventure and hurrah for our heroes after which they would continue on in different ways after losing Spock.
- If TSFS had been the last film we could accept that even though Spock had been recovered nothing would likely ever be the same for our heroes again.
- If TVH (my least favourite of the TOS films) had been the last we could assume that everyone was pretty much together at the end and ready for more adventure.
- TUC was the last full TOS instalment and while many laud it I find it tinged with saddest knowing this really was the swan song closing everything down for our heroes.
- GEN brought some of the familiar gang back and it felt like a pointless waste. This really is a dumb movie on so many levels.

And you can bet there could be lots of stories written and published in followup to any of the films if any of them had been the last.

 

[Maurice]

I think Kirk's rep would make it easy for him to get a civilian scout ship, and he and whoever would want to join him would go off and continue finding strange new worlds, sort of like when the crew was in limbo in Star Trek IV.

 

[TrickyDickie]

Watching the movies, without watching the series, it was all new to me.

That ties in to what the 'powers that be' always said about their target: the general audience. That's where the majority of the money is to be made. It's business. It never was about the vested interest of 'fans'. The movies were more about taking advantage of image-recognition than they were about what could be called 'self awareness'. If there wasn't a continuity from the series to the movies, it didn't really matter because it was about entertaining the broad audience. I have always maintained that things can be crafted in such a way that both goals are achieved, while remaining in-budget. Too many have the belief that good, cheap, and on time can't all be achieved together. The more that people convince themselves of something, the more true for them that it becomes.

On the issue of time, I think that 'Assignment: Earth', at the very least, should have been mentioned in TVH. When Kirk says that 1986 is "Terra incognita" it's simply not entirely true for them. Yes, the 60s to the 80s saw significant changes, but not to the extent where it should have seemed alien to them. That fish-out-of-water situation was played up for the humor....again, to appeal to a broad audience. I would have included references to the episode, because in my mind it would cause people in the audience to be curious about it and lead to the purchase (at the time) of VHS tapes. So, it would actually have been a sound idea from a business perspective.

Paramount never should have lumped all fans in together as nothing but a bunch of obsessed kooks. Some of us had a lot of good ideas and knew about budgetary constraints and creative problem-solving when resources are limited. We also could have told good stories that had broad appeal but that also would have more effectively furthered the continuity of the series.

My father was an employee of Ingersoll-Rand for 20 years and he said that when a company is making a lot of money with a certain way of doing things, you can seldom convince the ones at the top of how they could make significantly more money with a little positive change. They're just too scared of losing what they already have. That continues to be proven true today, with all of the reboots, sequels, and prequels, instead of more genuine originality.

 

[publiusr]

Nanite technology, or something along those lines, makes aging and unchosen death a thing of the past. It also makes structural degradation obsolete.

That take is something I would love to see with the “Regeneration” effects for a remastered end of ST IV.

Instead of the 1701-A, we see the bridge crew turn from the Excelsior towards Spacedock’s huge doors…which open up.

In the distance, we see TMP’s drydock…and inside it…a TOS type Enterprise… classic sets—but the technology under the skin is up there with 32 Century tech.

Full circle

 

[Riley]

I was thinking about the rumors of a "President Archer" series and it got me thinking: could we have seen a President Kirk? I don't think Kirk would get involved in politics but he was an accomplished diplomat.

 

[Lord Garth]

I was thinking about the rumors of a "President Archer" series and it got me thinking: could we have seen a President Kirk? I don't think Kirk would get involved in politics but he was an accomplished diplomat.

Kirk: "I'm a soldier, not a diplomat. I can only tell you the truth." Kirk could do it, if he were allowed to do it his way. Like if he could be able to get through to warring factions and make them see the light. It wouldn't have been his aim in life, but I think he'd be good at it. Spock was trying to push him in that direction in TUC anyway.

As far as President? No, hell no. Kirk's too respectable for that. I've spent my entire adult life voting for who I think is "less objectionable". In order to get ahead and to build a coalition, Kirk would become compromised beyond recognition and at the mercy of donors, constituents, and special interest groups. That's about as anti-Kirk as you can get.

I know people like to compare Kirk to John F. Kennedy, and I can see it. But I think it's more about the ambition, our aspirations, and how he carried himself. If Kirk were to actually become involved in the muckity-muck of politics, that would be something else entirely. He didn't even like being an Admiral, and that would be small-time politics compared to the Federation's equivalent of the White House.

 

[Riley]

That ties in to what the 'powers that be' always said about their target: the general audience. That's where the majority of the money is to be made. It's business. It never was about the vested interest of 'fans'. The movies were more about taking advantage of image-recognition than they were about what could be called 'self awareness'. If there wasn't a continuity from the series to the movies, it didn't really matter because it was about entertaining the broad audience. I have always maintained that things can be crafted in such a way that both goals are achieved, while remaining in-budget. Too many have the belief that good, cheap, and on time can't all be achieved together. The more that people convince themselves of something, the more true for them that it becomes.

On the issue of time, I think that 'Assignment: Earth', at the very least, should have been mentioned in TVH. When Kirk says that 1986 is "Terra incognita" it's simply not entirely true for them. Yes, the 60s to the 80s saw significant changes, but not to the extent where it should have seemed alien to them. That fish-out-of-water situation was played up for the humor....again, to appeal to a broad audience. I would have included references to the episode, because in my mind it would cause people in the audience to be curious about it and lead to the purchase (at the time) of VHS tapes. So, it would actually have been a sound idea from a business perspective.

Paramount never should have lumped all fans in together as nothing but a bunch of obsessed kooks. Some of us had a lot of good ideas and knew about budgetary constraints and creative problem-solving when resources are limited. We also could have told good stories that had broad appeal but that also would have more effectively furthered the continuity of the series.

My father was an employee of Ingersoll-Rand for 20 years and he said that when a company is making a lot of money with a certain way of doing things, you can seldom convince the ones at the top of how they could make significantly more money with a little positive change. They're just too scared of losing what they already have. That continues to be proven true today, with all of the reboots, sequels, and prequels, instead of more genuine originality.

Lots of truth here. Until or unless proven otherwise, big corporations will continue to do what makes a profit, even if means driving that thing into the ground and ultimately ruining it. I think we're seeing that with comic book movies now. I would love to see Skydance do something truly new with Trek, but I think it's highly unlikely.

 

[Riley]

Kirk: "I'm a soldier, not a diplomat. I can only tell you the truth." Kirk could do it, if he were allowed to do it his way. Like if he could be able to get through to warring factions and make them see the light. It wouldn't have been his aim in life, but I think he'd be good at it. Spock was trying to push him in that direction in TUC anyway.

As far as President? No, hell no. Kirk's too respectable for that. I've spent my entire adult life voting for who I think is "less objectionable". In order to get ahead and to build a coalition, Kirk would become compromised beyond recognition and at the mercy of donors, constituents, and special interest groups. That's about as anti-Kirk as you can get.

I know people like to compare Kirk to John F. Kennedy, and I can see it. But I think it's more about the ambition, our aspirations, and how he carried himself. If Kirk were to actually become involved in the muckity-muck of politics, that would be something else entirely. He didn't even like being an Admiral, and that would be small-time politics compared to the Federation's equivalent of the White House.

Agree completely, it was just an idea I had. I still think Jim Kirk gets a ship and goes "out there, that a way" on his own, his ultimate fate a mystery to all except a select few like Spock and McCoy.

 

[MurphyCooper]

Kirk doesn't strike me as the guy to want to Retire or quit his job. He would cease being a Captain, but he would remain around in a Hands on Fashion, either as an Academy Instructor or Keeper of Grounds / Superintendant of Starfleet itself. He's not an Admiral, he's above that, technically. It is complicated.

 

[Uxi]

As I put in the other thread, he retired to private life, got married, had kids and grandkids and rides horses for fun. Not everything has to revolve around Starfleet.

 

[MarcKyle1964]

As I put in the other thread, he retired to private life, got married, had kids and grandkids and rides horses for fun. Not everything has to revolve around Starfleet.

He loads up the family truckster, a milsurp shuttlecraft resplendent in wood paneling and metallic pea colour, with the roof mounted skylight. You hear "Let's...go..visitthekids, honey." as 'Holiday Road' begins playing...

 

[Ssosmcin]

Without reading all of these, this is how I would like to think of Kirk post TUC.

He's not forced to retire. The Federation owes him and the crew their continued existence, so they leave it up to him. Continue to command a starship or accept a promotion to Admiral as head of the Diplomatic Corps and sent out to handle various trouble spots. He thinks it over. Spock is off to do Spock stuff. McCoy and Scotty retire. Sulu is out there somewhere. Uhura is transitioning to a ground assignment and Chekov opens a kiosk on the Starfleet HQ mall - "Chekov's Tchotchkes." Kirk stops by once in a while to have a new screen protector put on his PADD. Chekov charges him double.

Kirk realizes that, unlike previous crews, the Enterprise crew was indeed his family and the magic of command isn't the same without them. So he accepts the promotion which allows him to "starship hop" as he troubleshoots various conflicts, oversees important first contacts and other things.

After a few years, he feels the pull of family life and connection, something yanked from his grasp by Kruge. He knows he can't do that space hopping, and with his thirst for exploration quenched, he returns to Earth - maintaining his commission. I honestly don't feel like Kirk is the retirement type. He's not a stay at home rancher - hell Shatner himself is still going in his 90's, why should Kirk retire? He keeps moving up the Admiralty, marries, maybe has that late in life kid, and settles in as Chief of Starfleet Operations. He declines the nomination to run for Federation President, "I'm a soldier and a diplomat, but I draw the line at politician."

He does eventually retire, lectures and writes a few books while tending his family. Grand Admiral James T. Kirk eventually passes way at the age of 113, having lived a full and prestigious life, and is buried with full honors befitting a man of his stature. His funeral is attended by friends and foes alike. Kirk gets his happy ending.

 

[TrickyDickie]

Upon further consideration....

How many epic failures begin with that?

However, I will plunge ahead anyway.

If Kirk goes to the length of stealing the Enterprise to rescue Spock, then I feel that eventually he's going to violate all prohibitions and go back through the Guardian of Forever to rescue Edith. Dammit, if she disappeared from her time, it would have the same effect as if she died. And the Guardian never said there was any kind of restriction to prevent doing something like that.

Keeping busy, with the whole crew together, is one thing. That would keep his mind off of it, to an extent.

But, later, with everyone going their separate ways....it would start gnawing on him a lot more.

Love? Family? He would want that with Edith. She was the greatest love of his life.

 

[Ssosmcin]

Love? Family? He would want that with Edith. She was the greatest love of his life.

Nah, she was forgotten soon after.

Miramanee though....

 

[Henoch]

Two issues with Kirk showing up a split moment before they died is that: 1. his past self is still there; and 2. he is not the same man, rather he is 25 years older. What makes us think the young woman from his past will want to be with this older version of Kirk? The lightning in a bottle is gone.

 

[Riley]

Upon further consideration....

How many epic failures begin with that?

However, I will plunge ahead anyway.

If Kirk goes to the length of stealing the Enterprise to rescue Spock, then I feel that eventually he's going to violate all prohibitions and go back through the Guardian of Forever to rescue Edith. Dammit, if she disappeared from her time, it would have the same effect as if she died. And the Guardian never said there was any kind of restriction to prevent doing something like that.

Keeping busy, with the whole crew together, is one thing. That would keep his mind off of it, to an extent.

But, later, with everyone going their separate ways....it would start gnawing on him a lot more.

Love? Family? He would want that with Edith. She was the greatest love of his life.

This is fascinating idea. Maybe in the course of going back to rescue her, some timey-wimey thing happens and Kirk finds himself the age he was when he met her? He tells her everything and they both disappear from history, leaving a peaceful life until they both grow old and die.

 

[Moopsy]

In my personal canon, Kirk gets together with Dr. McCoy's daughter Joanna and the two have a happy life together....