Must There Be A Section 31?

[Kamen Rider Blade]

Which circles back to needing a tardigrade.

Only for it's DNA, and I'm sure Stamets would've scanned the Tardigrade DNA & mapped it's entire genome sequence and know what to look for.

I'm sure with the resources of Section 31 outside of the UFP, they would've found a Tardigrade eventually & re-created it.

Doesn't mean Section 31 is inclined to help StarFleet save Voyager.

Remember, Section 31 by that time has been long kicked out of StarFleet Intelligence for over a century.

So they have no obligation to help StarFleet in any way, even if they could.

 

[The Wormhole]

Only for it's DNA, and I'm sure Stamets would've scanned the Tardigrade DNA & mapped it's entire gene sequence and know what to look for.

If so, why didn't the rest of Starfleet do so during the Klingon War, particularly during the nine months Disco was in the Mirror Universe when they would have desperately needed the tactical advantage since the Klingons were conquering 20% of the Federation and establishing a foothold in the Sol system itself resulting in the Federation relaxing its morals so much that genocide itself was being authorized by the government?

Because it wasn't possible. A fact that continued to be the case as far into the future as the 32nd century. Or even the 33rd, based on the epilogue of Disco's finale.

 

[Kamen Rider Blade]

If so, why didn't the rest of Starfleet do so during the Klingon War, particularly during the nine months Disco was in the Mirror Universe when they would have desperately needed the tactical advantage since the Klingons were conquering 20% of the Federation and establishing a foothold in the Sol system itself resulting in the Federation relaxing its morals so much that genocide itself was being authorized by the government?

The Federation were busy trying to survive, they were getting their butts handed during the Klingon War.
They have more pressing matters than to go Tardigrade hunting.

Because it wasn't possible. A fact that continued to be the case as far into the future as the 32nd century. Or even the 33rd, based on the epilogue of Disco's finale.

I don't know how you get it wasn't possible.
The Spore Drive was amazing, yes.
But getting it mass produced required genetically modifying yourself so you have Biological Navigators.

Remember, the UFP have been very touchy on Genetic Engineering, that hasn't really changed all that much in the 32nd Century.

Given the requirements, I could see why the UFP opted to go with the "Pathway Drive".
No need to violate their own laws to make it work, even if the Genetic Modifcation didn't really give you super powers or enhanced anything short of not being able to be affected by changes in the "TimeLine".

Man that feature would've been pretty amazing during the Temporal Wars now that I think about it.
That Genetic Enhancement could prevent Time-Line changes from screwing you over in a Temporal War, that would be pretty OP.

 

[The Wormhole]

The Federation were busy trying to survive, they were getting their butts handed during the Klingon War.
They have more pressing matters than to go Tardigrade hunting.

Think about what you just said. They're too busy trying to survive to go and obtain the ultimate weapon which will allow them to survive. Does that really make sense to you? Really?

I don't know how you get it wasn't possible.
The Spore Drive was amazing, yes.
But getting it mass produced required genetically modifying yourself so you have Biological Navigators.

Sounds like you just made my point for me. There's no way to operate the spore drive without an enhanced individual to serve as the navigator, or a tardigrade to either operate it or provide a DNA sample to enhance someone to become the navigator.

 

[fireproof78]

I'm sure Starfleet will bend the rules just this once in the name of travel enhancement.

 

[Kamen Rider Blade]

Think about what you just said. They're too busy trying to survive to go and obtain the ultimate weapon which will allow them to survive. Does that really make sense to you? Really?

To our knowledge, they only found one Macro sized Tardigrade and managed to capture him.

How they will manage to find another one in a reasonable amount of time, who knows.

But when a War is going on, they're focused on matters that they can control over something that is a random wild goose chase.

Ultimate Weapon or not, odds of finding are very slim.

It would be a different matter if they already had one to use, but they didn't.

 

[fireproof78]

Using the notes from the GLENN and DISCOVERY.

We can discover time crystals but something we already know about? Pssh...too hard.

 

[Kamen Rider Blade]

Using the notes from the GLENN and DISCOVERY.

We can discover time crystals but something we already know about? Pssh...too hard.

Knowing about the "Time Crystals" is one thing, acquiring them would still be "Incredibly Hard".

Even with Klingons as our Allies, I doubt the Monks of Boreth would allow anybody to just take a few Crystals for personal use.

Be it Klingon or Federation.

 

[fireproof78]

Knowing about the "Time Crystals" is one thing, acquiring them would still be "Incredibly Hard".

Even with Klingons as our Allies, I doubt the Monks of Boreth would allow anybody to just take a few Crystals for personal use.

Be it Klingon or Federation.

Here's the thing though; they did. Section 31 developed the Red Angel suit while the Klingons were still hostile. The Federation has researchers and ships that can keep working. The ENTEPRISE was sent away to ensure something would survive.

Yes, it's incredibly hard. Preserving a society usually is.

 

[The Wormhole]

Here's the thing though; they did. Section 31 developed the Red Angel suit while the Klingons were still hostile.

Plus the alternate timeline from SNW's first season finale where the events of Balance of Terror lead to another Romulan War that lasts decades, Pike was able to go to Boreth again and obtain another time crystal.

Besides, I don't buy the "it would be too hard to find a tardigrade given the circumstances" excuses. The circumstances are the Federation was losing a war, 20% of it had already fallen and the Klingons were already establishing a military presence in the Federation's capital solar system. When faced with such an existential threat, these are the circumstances when all options are on the table, no matter how far fetched. All rationality will go out the window, even if that means going on a "wild goose chase."

 

[Laura Cynthia Chambers]

It'd be a standing order or directive.

 

[Uncle Sock]

I've never liked the concept of Section 31. It basically rewrites the whole idea of Starfleet and the Federation being built on cooperation and all that optimistic spirit. Sure, real life is messy—even in a fictional universe—but they already had an Intelligence branch, and maybe even a modern version of the old MACO system. Section 31 just always felt off to me, and honestly, it still does. In my headcanon, it doesn’t exist at all.

 

[XCV330]

I liked the DS9 version of it being so tiny and under the radar even high ranking officers knew nothing of it.
The Sec31 with its own fleet yet being unknown in Disco and ST:ID was implausible at best.

 

[Quantum21]

I've never liked the concept of Section 31. It basically rewrites the whole idea of Starfleet and the Federation being built on cooperation and all that optimistic spirit. Sure, real life is messy—even in a fictional universe—but they already had an Intelligence branch, and maybe even a modern version of the old MACO system. Section 31 just always felt off to me, and honestly, it still does. In my headcanon, it doesn’t exist at all.

I just feel that it's common sense. Ideally, if you're espousing perfection, yes this wouldn't exist, but if we posit lack of perfection in the fictional galaxy, then this makes all the logical sense in the world.

 

[Uncle Sock]

I just feel that it's common sense. Ideally, if you're espousing perfection, yes this wouldn't exist, but if we posit lack of perfection in the fictional galaxy, then this makes all the logical sense in the world.

I totally get the logic of including something like Section 31—realistically, not everything would be clean in a galaxy that complicated. But for me, that's not what I come to Star Trek for. I really connect with the idealism and optimism—call it escapism if you want, but that's the version of the future that appeals to me. Section 31 always felt like it was introduced just to make DS9 even darker, and it never sat right with me. It felt kinda forced and poorly executed, especially later. That's my issue with it.

 

[Farscape One]

I think Section 31 existing makes perfect sense, and it doesn't diminish the idealism or optimism of STAR TREK. It simply challenges it. And in doing so, actually enhances STAR TREK.

It's precisely why the character of Bashir was picked as the opposite of the character of Sloan: Bashir represented the high morals and ethics of the Federation while Sloan embodied the 'ends justifies the means' approach.

Both have valid, legitimate arguments. Having the high morals and ethics is fantastic, but if they are never challenged, aren't they merely words to make us feel better about ourselves?

It's the questioning and challenging of those ideals that makes Section 31 a great addition.

(Having said that, it should have stopped with ENTERPRISE. The current era of writers REALLY just doesn't get them. Best left alone.)

 

[Quantum21]

I think Section 31 existing makes perfect sense, and it doesn't diminish the idealism or optimism of STAR TREK. It simply challenges it. And in doing so, actually enhances STAR TREK.

It's precisely why the character of Bashir was picked as the opposite of the character of Sloan: Bashir represented the high morals and ethics of the Federation while Sloan embodied the 'ends justifies the means' approach.

Both have valid, legitimate arguments. Having the high morals and ethics is fantastic, but if they are never challenged, aren't they merely words to make us feel better about ourselves?

It's the questioning and challenging of those ideals that makes Section 31 a great addition.

(Having said that, it should have stopped with ENTERPRISE. The current era of writers REALLY just doesn't get them. Best left alone.)

I continually point out that Starfleet was involved with them, even in DS9. It went all the way to the top, it's in even the charter. So however it was supposed to be, the in-universe reality totally makes it possible, and indeed essential.

One argument is from idealism, one is from reality and necessity.

 

[DonIago]

Spoiler: S31 novel: "Control"

For all the people who'd claim that S31 is just a bunch of screw-ups who make situations worse rather than better, I'd point out that in the S31 novel Control the AI originally responsible for incepting S31 anticipates the Xindi attack on Earth, but also realizes that the Earth of the time has no ability to do anything about it; the best it can do is take steps to try to prevent anything like that from happening in the future. Whether it was 'right' to take those steps or not is left as an unanswered and perhaps unanswerable question.