Opinions on the remastered versions

[M'Sharak]

Opinions on the remastered versions

None of it was essential, and what we got was kind of a grab-bag:

Some of it was nice work, but not a good fit for the original show.

Some of it was a questionable choice, and also not a good fit for the original show.

Some of it was "Why did you even bother re-doing that? The original effects were fine, and this--while it kinda fits--simply makes it look different without improving anything."

They did patch a few bits which had been emphasized by higher-res picture quality.

 

[Orac]

I watched the remastered versions on netflix but prefer to get out my DVD's of the originals. My biggest problem with the remastered episodes is the changes to the opening titles, specifically the sound mix, Shatner sounds like he is very far away in the remastered versions and the music is loud, at first I thought maybe I was getting old and couldn't hear properly but when I put on the DVDs I can hear every word loud and clear. Also I really like the original season 2 version of the opening how out of focus the stars are and the (probably unintentional) psychedelic effect of that. In the remastered version they are crisp and clear, IMO this was an error that didn't need fixing.

 

[BillJ]

Some of it was "Why did you even bother re-doing that? The original effects were fine, and this--while it kinda fits--simply makes it look different without improving anything."

Adding the phaser beam to “The Naked Time” still pisses me off to this day.

 

[M'Sharak]

Adding the phaser beam to “The Naked Time” still pisses me off to this day.

I don't think any of it affected me to that degree. I thought there were a few things that were pretty cool, even if they didn't exactly fit -- the shots for "The Doomsday Machine" may have been the peak for that category -- but mostly I could take or leave them. It just wasn't that big a deal for me.

The "adding the phaser beam" bit you mention was definitely an unnecessary step. (One thing you learn early about real light / particle beams is that many of them aren't visible to the human eye, so an invisible phaser beam was entirely believable.)

The recent thread about "anyone hate the swirling lollipops" had me chuckling, though -- mainly because it reminded me of Shatmandu's running "nacelle cap brightness" gag from way back when.

 

[Just a Bill]

In general, I like the remastered versions.

Pros

• Stock shots. I like not seeing the heavy re-use. Instead of the same canned ship maneuver 8 or 10 or 15 times, we get 8/10/15 different sequences. (Seems like every new sequence is unique.)
• Planets. Even half a century ago, those blurry beach balls looked terrible. The new versions are beautiful, and the slingshot around the Sun actually involving the Sun is a welcome addition.
• Romulans. Seeing the mixed Romulan fleet of BoPs and D7s in The Enterprise Incident helps make it more palatable when Spock says "Romulans now using Klingon design" to explain the loss of the BoP filming model.
• Other ships. It's nice to see an actual Orion Raider or Harry Mudd's vessel instead of a blurry yellow blob. The blobs take me out of the story. Sometimes we saw nothing at all back then, like with the Medusans, and it's nice to see that budget gap finally getting addressed. I love that they "canonized" the freighter design from the animated series; the re-use of the Botany Bay model seemed ridiculous to me even when I was a child.
• Phasers. Fixing the wrong colors is good. This too bothered me as a kid.
• Choice. We can watch the new or the old, as we choose. Both are good; just different.

Cons

• Battle maneuvers. I'm not a fan of starship-sized vessels smoothly and quickly swishing, diving, and tilting during combat. We didn't see that kind of motion in the original episodes, and frankly it makes the ships feel much smaller than they are supposed to be. (Star destroyers don't dip, zip, and juke around like x-wings.) I feel like I'm watching a small physical model being moved around by hand on the end of a stick that got matted out in post.
• Digital chronometers. This just might be the worst change for me. The Naked Time's original sequence where the chronometer runs backward, decelerates, pauses for a tick, then accelerates back to forward time was magical. Artistic. It heightened the emotion of this powerful sequence in the episode. In the digital version that is lost, and it doesn't really even communicate the reversal very effectively to the viewer. I actively despise the digital chronometer. This one was a bad call; a lack of discipline, or maybe just a failure to appreciate what was being lost.

 

[CorporalCaptain]

Also not a fan. The majority of the Enterprise, starship, and shuttlecraft shots are ass.

The soundtrack changes are also for the worse.

Most of the matte work is alright, and in some cases a definite improvement (e.g. the Majove illusion in "The Cage").

 

[Tosk]

(One thing you learn early about real light / particle beams is that many of them aren't visible to the human eye, so an invisible phaser beam was entirely believable.)

I completely agree that a beam could be invisible. But it's also entirely believable that one would want a visible beam on any handheld device with such destructive capabilities.

 

[Ovation]

As long as the original versions are available, I don’t really care. Story and performance have always outweighed visual effects for me with just about everything, so if I’m too lazy to get the discs out and just decide to watch an episode on Netflix…meh.

Wrong aspect ratio is WAY more bothersome to me (which has happened on some Netflix interfaces—not on my usual gear, thankfully).

 

[M'Sharak]

I completely agree that a beam could be invisible. But it's also entirely believable that one would want a visible beam on any handheld device with such destructive capabilities.

That's a fair point, and 99.999% of the time a visible beam is what we get.

That one time, though, when you're locked out of your regular tool selection, and you really, really need to improvise something in order to beat a do-or-die deadline, it kinda figures that Scotty would be the guy who knows how to override the safety settings and get the job done using a non-standard blunt instrument for time-critical but decidedly other-than-intended precision surgery.

 

[Tosk]

That one time, though, when you're locked out of your regular tool selection, and you really, really need to improvise something in order to beat a do-or-die deadline, it kinda figures that Scotty would be the guy who knows how to override the safety settings and get the job done using a non-standard blunt instrument for time-critical but decidedly other-than-intended precision surgery.

That's probably why Scott took so long to get through. It was a tricky job and the poor guy couldn't see where the cutting beam was.

 

[Shawnster]

That's a fair point, and 99.999% of the time a visible beam is what we get.

That one time, though, when you're locked out of your regular tool selection, and you really, really need to improvise something in order to beat a do-or-die deadline, it kinda figures that Scotty would be the guy who knows how to override the safety settings and get the job done using a non-standard blunt instrument for time-critical but decidedly other-than-intended precision surgery.

I always understood the absence of a visible beam was because the phaser was set at a low (maybe lowest) setting or the beam was focused into a cutting beam instead of the phaser being at a setting that could vaporize the entire bulkhead.

 

[Ovation]

I always understood the absence of a visible beam was because the phaser was set at a low (maybe lowest) setting or the beam was focused into a cutting beam instead of the phaser being at a setting that could vaporize the entire bulkhead.

Could have vaporized the door? No? Too obvious?

 

[Warped9]

The newer vfx don’t look anything like what they could have done in the ‘60s even under the best of conditions. Even when they were new the newer vfx looked clearly like animation. The lighting was horrible.

A few dedicated fans have made new visuals of the TOS E that make CBS’ TOS-R look like shit.

For example.

Here is my 1:350 Starship build.

And he has made motion scenes that look to recreate original shots that look pristine. Because he is using a physical model it gives the ship a physical presence, like the original footage, thats hard to replicate with cgi.

Star Trek Continues is a fan production that did TOS vfx pretty darn good that also make TOS-R look like crap.

 

[Firebird]

I enjoyed the remasters for what they were at the time they were released, but these days I don't care for them. Whenever I rewatch TOS, I always go for the original VFX. They're less dated and (of course) feel more organically cohesive with the live action footage.

This discussion just made me recall Daren Dochterman's VFX reels for his attempt at handling The Doomsday Machine's remaster back in 2007:

To view this content we will need your consent to set third party cookies.
For more detailed information, see our cookies page.

Accept third party cookies

To view this content we will need your consent to set third party cookies.
For more detailed information, see our cookies page.

Accept third party cookies

To view this content we will need your consent to set third party cookies.
For more detailed information, see our cookies page.

Accept third party cookies

​

 

[Shawnster]

Could have vaporized the door? No? Too obvious?

I had the same thought. I figure vaporizing the door or bulkhead was too much for Scotty to contemplate. He was thinking he'd need to repair what he was damaging.

Of course, getting rid of the door/bulkhead would have saved time.

Maybe vaporizing the door/bulkhead would potentially have unintended consequences, like killing Riley or exposing a portion of the ship to space.

 

[Ovation]

I had the same thought. I figure vaporizing the door or bulkhead was too much for Scotty to contemplate. He was thinking he'd need to repair what he was damaging.

Of course, getting rid of the door/bulkhead would have saved time.

Maybe vaporizing the door/bulkhead would potentially have unintended consequences, like killing Riley or exposing a portion of the ship to space.

Maybe. But I think the writers believed the ticking clock aspect made for better drama. Probably right.

 

[CorporalCaptain]

Maybe vaporizing the door/bulkhead would potentially have unintended consequences, like killing Riley or exposing a portion of the ship to space.

Taking this idea a step further, if a critical system were rendered inoperable by the disintegration, with the crew also compromised, they could have been past out of time to make repairs. Scotty was counting on the engines not being shut off, as is. So, maybe it was a safety issue. He knew he could cut through in time (assuming the engines were still on) following the schematic, so there was no need to be so reckless.

 

[ananta]

The live action film footage looks absolutely brilliant, absolutely pops off the screen and hard to believe it was shot 60 years ago! It looks phenomenal.

The remastered FX? I appreciate the effort, but you can keep it. I just don’t like it; the Enterprise is far too dark and while there are a lot of good touches, like the new planets etc, i find it detracts and pulls me out of the episode each time we switch to space. There’s a deep visual and aesthetic incongruity that affects my enjoyment of the episode. I’d much rather watch the original FX, warts and all, because it’s a product that holds together. I’m so immensely grateful for the blu ray discs.

 

[Ssosmcin]

I enjoyed the remasters for what they were at the time they were released, but these days I don't care for them. Whenever I rewatch TOS, I always go for the original VFX. They're less dated and (of course) feel more organically cohesive with the live action footage.

This discussion just made me recall Daren Dochterman's VFX reels for his attempt at handling The Doomsday Machine's remaster back in 2007:

To view this content we will need your consent to set third party cookies.
For more detailed information, see our cookies page.

Accept third party cookies

To view this content we will need your consent to set third party cookies.
For more detailed information, see our cookies page.

Accept third party cookies

To view this content we will need your consent to set third party cookies.
For more detailed information, see our cookies page.

Accept third party cookies

​

Dochterman understood the assignment for the most part. Especially when the Constellation's view screen kicks on. Kirk doesn't see the Enterprise approaching the PK too soon and he doesn't see them firing yet, as in the official TOS-R redo.

However, I'm still not convinced the Enterprise was towing the Constellation at the start of the commercial break. Since no shots showed them together in the original, the implication was that the Enterprise had drawn the PK away from the Constellation (they would be less maneuverable if they were towing a dead starship behind them). Besides, they never had time to begin tractoring it. Kirk was staying on board to "get her ready" for towing and the order was never given.

Sometimes you gotta follow the script - not just what's there but what isn't.

Otherwise, I approve of his decisions and his fidelity to the original design of the PK (as if that matters).

 

[Maurice]

TOS had a budget of $190K~$200K per episode.

Though some went over and some went under, and it changed by season, it was more like $190K at the high end and $178K at the low end.

To compare, Batman's hour-long (2-parter) stories also had cost $200k each. Keep in mind that its main/standing sets' construction also had cost a lot of unprecedented money, hence the per-episode count being lower.

I wouldn't say unprecedented. The Batcave set was big, but it also reused a lot of elements from Fox's scene dock seen in everything from Fantastic Voyage to Lost In Space.

Keep in mind that color TV was very new and, as such, very expensive no matter what. Now add in special effects that took multiple reels of film overlaid...

[...]due to the newness of color film and more elaborate sets.

Color film was decades old. Color TV wasn't new, either. The issue with color was cost, as color film was more expensive to work with.

We know what planets look like in orbit, with weather and continents. They don't look like color saturated Big Glass Marbles.

We knew then, at least in low Earth orbit, from the 1965 Gemini missions. Heck, Talos IV was an airbrushed photo of the Moon. The planet models weren't the issue, the color tinting and processing is what made them look like fuzzy pompoms.

However, I'm still not convinced the Enterprise was towing the Constellation at the start of the commercial break. Since no shots showed them together in the original

Does no one but me recall this shot?

I'm repeatedly on the record about my objections to TOS-R, but in summary:

1. The CGI artists didn't grok what film looks like, so they rendered CGI space sequences that don't fit the visual style of the rest of the show. At times it's obvious they don't understand cinematography 101 and shot composition, so they occasionally produced weirdly and badly framed shots.
2. A few of the models were shit. Looking at you, Tholian ship, and they ruined the Klingon ship.
3. They chose to do too many new ship shots instead of focusing on getting the stock library shots done, so they created more work for themselves, and the quality suffered.
4. At times they weren't paying attention to details of the episodes and created continuity problems, like the already-mentioned "Doomsday Machine" bit where Kirk reacts to a viewscreen image, and changed the "blue flame" from "The Paradise Syndrome" to another color.
5. The people behind it weren't filmmakers and they occasionally "fixed" a mistake that was actually a deliberate choice on the part of the original makers and film editors, notably unflopping shots that were deliberately flopped in editorial to deal with directional continuity and eyeline issues. They "fixed" one problem by re-creating the problem the original editors had fixed by flopping the shots.