Your preferred Sequel Trilogy Episode

[Set Harth]

TLJ's copying of ESB is way more than "a couple of shared plot points," IMO.

ESB: the rebels are holed up on a white snow planet they must escape from. The Force-using character goes to a boggy, desolate planet, where he meets a legendary Jedi Master who's a lot snarkier than he expected, and who's reluctant to train him. Eventually, however, the Jedi Master gets a pep talk from a Force Ghost, and decides to do so. The Force-using character has a disturbing vision in a Dark Side cave regarding his lineage, and runs off before his training is complete. Meanwhile, the main non-Force using character, on a small ship chased by the Empire, goes to a civilian area to meet a potential ally, who double-crosses them. But, at least the guy and woman on this mission may be falling in love? Anyhow, the Force-using character learns a devastating truth about the helmeted Sith enemy (he's his dad!), and the heroes limp away to freedom, but at least they have each other.

TLJ: The Force-using character goes to a boggy, desolate planet, where she meets a legendary Jedi Master who's a lot snarkier than he expected, and who's reluctant to train her. Eventually, however, the Jedi Master gets a pep talk from a Force Ghost, and decides to do so. The Force-using character has a disturbing vision in a Dark Side cave regarding her lineage, and runs off before her training is complete. Meanwhile, the main non-Force using character, on a small ship chased by the Empire, goes to a civilian area to meet a potential ally, who double-crosses them. But, at least the guy and woman on this mission may be falling in love? Anyhow, the Force-using character learns a devastating truth about the helmeted Sith enemy (he's beyond redemption!), and the heroes limp away to freedom, but at least they have each other.

And now, a RotJ bonus round!

RotJ: disillusioned by a secret kept by a Jedi elder (that Vader is Luke's dad), the Force-using character willingly surrenders to meet the Sith master and his apprentice, hoping to turn his apprentice back towards the Light Side. The Sith apprentice betrays and kills his master. Around this time, the surviving Jedi Master dies a peaceful death on his boggy, desolate planet.

TLJ: disillusioned by a secret kept by a Jedi elder (that Luke is partly to blame for Ben's fall to the Dark Side), the Force-using character willingly surrenders to meet the Sith master and his apprentice, hoping to turn his apprentice back towards the Light Side. The Sith apprentice betrays and kills his master. Around this time, the surviving Jedi Master dies a peaceful death on his boggy, desolate planet.

Yeahhhhhhh... that's a lot of common plot points.

Don't forget the B team not being able to go to hyperspace while being chased by the bad guys for a significant chunk of the movie, and the rebels being holed up in a base on a white-colored planet which gets attacked by walkers so they have to fight the walkers with speeders.

But the originality! The originality.

 

[Ray Hardgrit]

The Last Jedi is blatantly repeating a lot of Empire Strikes Back (and Return of the Jedi), you don't have to convince anyone of that, it's not hidden. But the familiar roads often lead to different destinations.

Darth Vader is Luke's father.
Rey's father isn't important.

"I'll never join you!"
Rey joins Ren long enough to defeat the Emperor.

Luke gets Vader to turn.
Rey fails to turn Ren.

The guy who betrayed them becomes an ally.
Their ally ultimately betrays them.

Ghost Yoda and Obi-Wan can't be there to help the heroes.
Ghost Luke does help the heroes.

Empire ends with them splitting up to save Han
Last Jedi ends with everyone finally together

And so on.

Plus it does more with the Force, it has heroes mutinying against heroes, it's got the hyperspace collision, it has actual discussions about the failure of the Jedi and what they should do next. It does have actual new things in it.

 

[BillJ]

The Force Awakens. Nothing could ever match the excitement during the lead up of that movie.

Overall, I found them all entertaining.

 

[Set Harth]

"I'll never join you!"
Rey joins Ren long enough to defeat the Emperor.

The similarity here would be Luke refusing to join Vader in TESB and Rey refusing to join Kylo in TLJ. ( And if we throw in Ahsoka refusing to join Maul in TCW we get a trifecta! )

 

[Tosk]

You guys just don't get how brilliant the subversion of expectation was in TLJ.

It wasn't snow, it was SALT!

 

[Turtletrekker]

You guys just don't get how brilliant the subversion of expectation was in TLJ.

It wasn't snow, it was SALT!

And we know it's true because the guy tasted it and told us so.

 

[Gaith]

And we know it's true because the guy tasted it and told us so.

Sadly, it turns out it was both salt and cyanide. He died an agonizing and pointless (offscreen) death moments later.

The Force Awakens. Nothing could ever match the excitement during the lead up of that movie.

Personally, as a longtime Thrawn Trilogy fan, I simply knew in my gut no new movie could possibly live up to those stories, so I wasn't particularly excited at all.

You guys just don't get how brilliant the subversion of expectation was in TLJ.

Okay, you made me repost it...

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[BillJ]

Personally, as a longtime Thrawn Trilogy fan, I simply knew in my gut no new movie could possibly live up to those stories, so I wasn't particularly excited at all.

Kind of the problem with being a “big fan”. I feel the same way about Strange New Worlds vs. “Star Trek: Early Voyages”.

 

[fireproof78]

The Force Awakens. Nothing could ever match the excitement during the lead up of that movie.

Overall, I found them all entertaining.

I deed, yes. Entertainment was my number one goal.

No, none of them rise to the OT level. Neither did the PT. No, I didn't expect the Thrawn trilogy because Thrawn was just ok in the books.

At a certain level, I'll find the ST as decent ideas and fair execution. Given the weeping and wailing and gnashing of teeth I saw over the PT I'll call it a better time.

 

[Set Harth]

I didn't expect the Thrawn trilogy because Thrawn was just ok in the books.

For years internet wackos insisted that if there was ever a sequel trilogy it would be straight up adaptations of those books.

 

[fireproof78]

For years internet wackos insisted that if there was ever a sequel trilogy it would be straight up adaptations of those books.

They also wanted Disney to take over from Lucas after the disaster of the PT. Fans are not rational.

 

[Gaith]

In the Beating Dead Fathiers category, this fan-proposed reworking of TLJ sounds a lot better than the movie we got (fair warning, vid runs 18 minutes):

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[DonIago]

TRoS lost me the moment it brought back Palps via text in the opening crawl and never got me back. One groan after another, though parts of it were alright. As a writer, it also angered me for its retcons of content from TLJ (which felt like cowardice) and for sidelining Rose (I'll grant that may not have been the original intention prior to Carrie Fisher's death). The one thing I remember most enjoying was Hux's role in this film, but it's so 'blink and you miss it' that I can't really give the film a lot of points for it.

TFA was a bit too obviously 'inspired by' ANH, but it had enough new things to hold my interest, and it is great to see Han and Leia again.

TLJ may or may not be 'inspired' by the earlier films...I find I don't really care, because I love Luke as an embittered old man who had a terrible moment of doubt, and his postmortem for the Jedi feels spot on to me, and perhaps one of his finest moments. I love that it's content to have Rey be the Daughter of None, and that it starts to get away from the 'exceptionalism' of the Force to some degree. I thought it was very ballsy to kill Snoke here, and I enjoyed Snoke calling out Kylo Ren for the Darth Vader wannabe that he was. Yes, there's a lot of plot oddities, but I'm not sure it's particularly worse in this film than the other two, so for me the highs of this one are higher than the highs of the other two, while the lows are...bothersome, but far less bothersome than the lows of TRoS if lower than the lows of TFA.

 

[Set Harth]

and that it starts to get away from the 'exceptionalism' of the Force to some degree.

What does this mean?

 

[DonIago]

What does this mean?

That the prequels revolve around Anakin Skywalker and the original films revolve around Luke, but TLJ brings forth someone who (within the context of that film, at least) isn't a Skywalker or even anyone particularly noteworthy, as well as the Force-wielding kid at the end of the film. It gets away from the idea that you need to somehow be 'important' to 'merit' having skill with the Force.

It irks me that TRoS felt the need to unspool that.

 

[Gepard]

TLJ, partly because some (but not all) of it is very good, but mostly because TFA and TROS are ass. Best of a bad bunch.

 

[Tosk]

That the prequels revolve around Anakin Skywalker and the original films revolve around Luke, but TLJ brings forth someone who (within the context of that film, at least) isn't a Skywalker or even anyone particularly noteworthy, as well as the Force-wielding kid at the end of the film. It gets away from the idea that you need to somehow be 'important' to 'merit' having skill with the Force.

The same way that a farmboy nobody was later revealed to be the son of one of the most powerful force-wielders ever?

 

[DonIago]

The same way that a farmboy nobody was later revealed to be the son of one of the most powerful force-wielders ever?

I'm sorry, I can't tell whether you're being facetious. If you're suggesting that the way Rey's lineage is revealed is genuinely supposed to mirror Luke's...then not really, no. There's nothing in TLJ to suggest that there was any intention at the time for Rey to have actually been the descendant of any powerful force-wielder. In TRoS it rather feels like one of several elements thrown into the film despite it directly overturning what had already been established.

 

[Tosk]

If you're suggesting that the way Rey's lineage is revealed is genuinely supposed to mirror Luke's...then not really, no.

I don't know if it was intentionally supposed to or not. (Considering the disarray of the sequel trilogy, who the hell knows?)

But it's true to say that both of them are nobodies living in the desert who one day get handed a lightsaber, and later find out that they have incredibly powerful force-users in their family. Both of them are also told 'facts' about their family that turn out to be a lie. From a certain point of view.

 

[Ithekro]

They kind of do that in Ahsoka with Sabine. She may not be a nobody, but she is extremely weak in the Force (or her Mandalorian training and starting as an adult is holding her back a lot).