My "FIGHT" with Captain Kirk!

[Chris PikE]

A couple of years ago I was at The Star Trek Original Series Set Tour for a Shatner event. When I visit my friends there, I love to help out with the guests and stay out of their way. I didn't expect to have a "fist fight" with William Shatner!Normally my friend John Carrigan Does the honor, but John was unable to attend. While waiting outside the entrance to engineering ,out of the way of the guests, I hear my name called! James Cawley came out to meet me and said...You're Fighting Captain Kirk!So there I was standing in front of Mr. Shatner as he explained to the guests how he would Kick my butt!We did it twice that day. The second time Mr. Shatner and I waited for the guests to move on to the bridge.He then said to me, you did a good job. I said thanks! He then said John Carrigan would have fallen on the floor! I said, OK, next time I'll do that! Mr. Shatner looked at me in my full Starfleet uniform and said, No, I wouldn't want you to dirty that tunic...It looks expensive!A great memory! Luck would have it that several of the guests sent me these images as I was too busy acting!To do this, in full uniform, in engineering on the Starship Enterprise, acting a fight scene with William Shatner was a very surreal event indeed!

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[Paradave911]

Good stuff. Wish they had something like that here in texas, must have been super cool.

 

[ZapBrannigan]

This is great. Such a good venue for Shatner to play, such a good fan experience.

One thing I've thought about is the statement, maybe even made by Chris at some point, I can't recall, that the Engineering set seems smaller in person than it does in the Original Series.

In the wide view at 0:42, the two big machines on the left seem to have way less floor space around them than they did in "The Enemy Within," a show that may have played fast and loose with the size of the set.

Franz Joseph couldn't find tremendous floor space for them, either:

https://www.cygnus-x1.net/links/lcars/blueprints/sftm/03-08-10.jpg

I figure the Ticonderoga sets were made to authoritative studio specs. @Chris PikE, was accuracy ever discussed, and do you know if Franz Joseph was near it or far off the mark?

 

[Chris PikE]

This is great. Such a good venue for Shatner to play, such a good fan experience.

One thing I've thought about is the statement, maybe even made by Chris at some point, I can't recall, that the Engineering set seems smaller in person than it does in the Original Series.

In the wide view at 0:42, the two big machines on the left seem to have way less floor space around them than they did in "The Enemy Within," a show that may have played fast and loose with the size of the set.

Franz Joseph couldn't find tremendous floor space for them, either:

https://www.cygnus-x1.net/links/lcars/blueprints/sftm/03-08-10.jpg

I figure the Ticonderoga sets were made to authoritative studio specs. @Chris PikE, was accuracy ever discussed, and do you know if Franz Joseph was near it or far off the mark?

Thanks very much indeed! The sets are built to the actual set of BluePrints provided to James Cawley by Bill Theiss. They are 100% accurate/correct. Different camera angles can distort and change the visual look of them.
As much as I like the Franz Joseph blueprints, etc, His work is totally wrong.

 

[Phaser Two]

In the wide view at 0:42, the two big machines on the left seem to have way less floor space around them than they did in "The Enemy Within," a show that may have played fast and loose with the size of the set.

It definitely did, and thanks to Chris for his perspective on Ticonderoga. The sheer size of engineering in "The Enemy Within" and "Court Martial"—as well as the absence of incapacitated Khan-followers when Kirk arrives to confront Khan in the last act of "Space Seed," as I've discussed before—explains much of my support for the Two Engine Rooms Theory.

 

[Cap'n Claus]

It definitely did, and thanks to Chris for his perspective on Ticonderoga. The sheer size of engineering in "The Enemy Within" and "Court Martial"—as well as the absence of incapacitated Khan-followers when Kirk arrives to confront Khan in the last act of "Space Seed," as I've discussed before—explains much of my support for the Two Engine Rooms Theory.

Much as I'm a fan of "it's a TV show so the sets changed as the show evolved" in this case, there would have to be more than one if the ship has the capacity to separate. Otherwise the saucer would be floating away. As to where it would be.....

 

[Poltargyst]

I don't believe the TOS saucer could separate or that there is more than one Engineering other than the one known as Auxiliary.

 

[Cap'n Claus]

I don't believe the TOS saucer could separate or that there is more than one Engineering other than the one known as Auxiliary.

It could. We just never saw it. Kirk mentioned it on screen in The Apple.

"Discard the warp drive nacelles if you have to and crack out of there with the main section."

 

[Paradave911]

It could. We just never saw it. Kirk mentioned it on screen in The Apple.

"Discard the warp drive nacelles if you have to and crack out of there with the main section."

Really? Didnt know that! I love it here learn new stuff all the time.

 

[ZapBrannigan]

Much as I'm a fan of "it's a TV show so the sets changed as the show evolved" in this case, there would have to be more than one if the ship has the capacity to separate. Otherwise the saucer would be floating away. As to where it would be.....

I still like Franz Joseph's concept, with Engineering at the aft end of the saucer:

https://www.cygnus-x1.net/links/lcars/blueprints/stb-rescan/8.jpg

He put a second Engineering section on Deck 16:

https://www.cygnus-x1.net/links/lcars/blueprints/stb-rescan/10.jpg

It doesn't line up with episodes that imply two identical Engine Rooms, but I'm fine with that.

 

[Phaser Two]

I still like Franz Joseph's concept, with Engineering at the aft end of the saucer:

https://www.cygnus-x1.net/links/lcars/blueprints/stb-rescan/8.jpg

He put a second Engineering section on Deck 16:

https://www.cygnus-x1.net/links/lcars/blueprints/stb-rescan/10.jpg

It doesn't line up with episodes that imply two identical Engine Rooms, but I'm fine with that.

I'm fine with that too. But for the sake of being interested, what's an example (or what are a couple of examples) of implying two identical rooms? I guess most of the episodes do, but I'm not sure. How they shot the Engineering set remains highly confusing to me after all this time, but in a fun way. I guess my confusion stems from their ability to pull out the walls for different angles and how different directors used that option—more obvious on the bridge within the confines of a roughly circular set, but far less so with Engineering.

 

[ZapBrannigan]

I'm fine with that too. But for the sake of being interested, what's an example (or what are a couple of examples) of implying two identical rooms? I guess most of the episodes do, but I'm not sure. How they shot the Engineering set remains highly confusing to me after all this time, but in a fun way. I guess my confusion stems from their ability to pull out the walls for different angles and how different directors used that option—more obvious on the bridge within the confines of a roughly circular set, but far less so with Engineering.

I think it's mainly "The Omega Glory" that portrays two identical engine rooms, if you take it literally. Kirk gets on the PA system in one of them:

https://tos.trekcore.com/gallery/albums/screencaps/season2/225-omega-glory/omega-glory-br-049.jpg

And his voice is heard in the other:

https://tos.trekcore.com/gallery/albums/screencaps/season2/225-omega-glory/omega-glory-br-051.jpg

Also: The layout of Engineering is enigmatic in "That Which Survives," when the "lad" gets killed. Where is that alcove exactly? And the room seemed really big on the "fourth wall" side in "The Enemy Within" and "Court Martial."

 

[Poltargyst]

It could. We just never saw it. Kirk mentioned it on screen in The Apple.

"Discard the warp drive nacelles if you have to and crack out of there with the main section."

He said discard the NACELLES, not the secondary hull.

 

[ZapBrannigan]

He said discard the NACELLES, not the secondary hull.

The Making of Star Trek, which Gene Roddenberry co-authored, states unequivocally that the saucer can separate from the secondary hull, and each can operate independently. Published in 1968 while the show was a going concern.

Also, it would make no sense for Kirk to order that just the nacelles be jettisoned, because then the saucer's impulse engines would have to tow the secondary hull as dead weight. Kirk could NOT have meant that. It defies the simplest laws of physics. It's self-defeating.

Scotty would have to understand the order to mean "Get everybody into the saucer section, separate from the secondary hull, and let Vaal pull against the (unmanned) warp drive section while the lightened saucer gets away on impulse, subjected to only half of Vaal's strength."

 

[Chris PikE]

Guys, I had the Trek Nerd experience of life and we want to discuss the dimensions of Engineering? I can tell you this, James Cawley has re created the sets to exact specifications as the originals, down to the last detail. Some look smaller in person and the way they are Photographed but that's the magic of TV/ FILM!

 

[Dar70]

Dang that is extremely awesome. Thanks for sharing.....

 

[Henoch]

He said discard the NACELLES, not the secondary hull.

He doesn't exactly say, "nacelles"; he says "warp drive nacelles" which could imply one complete unit, i.e. engineering hull, instead of two separate nacelles. It also depends on our interpretation of "with the main section". So, does "main section" = "saucer" or "primary hull"? I think it does. Curious how the TOS writers use vague and odd wordage nomenclature as compared to later iterations of Star Trek. YMMV

 

[publiusr]

Was that bridge set in a dead mall?

I wish movie sets would be left intact in such places as opposed to being dismantled.

At any rate….I just thought that second engineering section was in The Doomsday Machine

 

[Cap'n Claus]

He said discard the NACELLES, not the secondary hull.

Star Trek shorthand. In TOS, they didn't need to spell it out with detailed explanations. Scotty knew what to do, so Kirk spoke to him as if he did. Anyways....

The Making of Star Trek, which Gene Roddenberry co-authored, states unequivocally that the saucer can separate from the secondary hull, and each can operate independently. Published in 1968 while the show was a going concern.

Also, it would make no sense for Kirk to order that just the nacelles be jettisoned, because then the saucer's impulse engines would have to tow the secondary hull as dead weight. Kirk could NOT have meant that. It defies the simplest laws of physics. It's self-defeating.

Scotty would have to understand the order to mean "Get everybody into the saucer section, separate from the secondary hull, and let Vaal pull against the (unmanned) warp drive section while the lightened saucer gets away on impulse, subjected to only half of Vaal's strength."

This.

Also one of the reasons Roddenberry didn't like the Enterprise self destruct scene in TSFS was because he said something to the effect of fans knowing the saucer could separate. Instead of destroying the whole ship, they could bring a new saucer down over the drive section. I can't find the quote to to link but I've seen it in print.

 

[Henoch]

Also one of the reasons Roddenberry didn't like the Enterprise self destruct scene in TSFS was because he said something to the effect of fans knowing the saucer could separate. Instead of destroying the whole ship, they could bring a new saucer down over the drive section. I can't find the quote to to link but I've seen it in print.

I think Kirk meant to destroy the whole ship. He could not know where the Klingons would have been on the ship after boarding. If I was to take a ship, I would send a squad to take the Bridge and a squad to take Engineering. YMMV