Spoilers The Fantastic Four: First Steps grade and discussion thread

[JoeZhang]

At the end of Thunderbolts earlier this year, audiences were teased with the arrival of the Fantastic Four to Earth-616, but this was not referenced in the latest Marvel film, and Shakman is revealing why.

“No, no, no, because the Thunderbolts* end credit scene was also created, you know, relatively late in my process too, so that was not something that I was familiar with because it hadn’t been created at the time that I was working on my script, you know?” the filmmaker told CinemaBlend.

Matt Shakman On Why ‘The Fantastic Four: First Steps’ Didn’t Give Continuity To ‘Thunderbolts’ Post-Credits Scene

Director Matt Shakman is explaining why The Fantastic Four: First Steps didn't give continuity to the post-credits scene in Thunderbolts from earlier this year.

deadline.com

 

[Mage]

So, did anyone catch the 'Star Trek VI: The Undiscovered Country' reference in the film?

Huh?

 

[The Nth Doctor]

Matt Shakman told Collider (quote via io9) that the cuts made to the film were for the greater good:

“By the time you end up cutting it, you’re doing it for a reason,” Shakman told Collider. “You’re looking at the larger picture, and you’re able to make those cuts, because they make sense. And, ultimately, you know it’s for the greater good. It’s always, in the post process, hard to—you know, the forest and the trees, right? You have to constantly think about the bigger picture. This cast is amazing, and all of the supporting cast is amazing, and the work of the design team, and cinematography, these are tons of great scenes that would be wonderful to have in the film, but ultimately, just didn’t contribute to the best possible narrative.”​

​

From the sounds of it, we probably won't be getting any kind of extended cut (but no Marvel film has had one so that's not a surprise). I'm still hoping the Red Ghost sequence is released as a One-Shot and not just a bunch of deleted scenes.

 

[Jeyl]

Huh?

Here's a big hint.

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[Mudd]

I suppose that studio's eagerness to invest in Extended Director's Cuts was driven by the commercial opportunity to sell additional copies of a film on various home video formats - Yes, you own Superman The Movie, but does it include Gene Hackman singing at the piano? Consequently, they're going to be less popular in an era where everything's eventually included in one subscription or another.

 

[The Nth Doctor]

I suppose that studio's eagerness to invest in Extended Director's Cuts was driven by the commercial opportunity to sell additional copies of a film on various home video formats - Yes, you own Superman The Movie, but does it include Gene Hackman singing at the piano? Consequently, they're going to be less popular in an era where everything's eventually included in one subscription or another.

Which is a shame because some films benefit from extended cuts (Blade Runner and especially Kingdom of Heaven immediately leap to mind) while others give fans so much more to experience (Lord of the Rings, Days of Future Past: Rogue Cut). You'd think streaming allow for more freedom in this regard but I guess it's not as "easy" to do since editing costs money and studios won't earn as much with streaming than physical media.

 

[tomalak301]

Matt Shakman On Why ‘The Fantastic Four: First Steps’ Didn’t Give Continuity To ‘Thunderbolts’ Post-Credits Scene

Director Matt Shakman is explaining why The Fantastic Four: First Steps didn't give continuity to the post-credits scene in Thunderbolts from earlier this year.

deadline.com

And this is why having like a miniseries or a show that comes before Doomsday seems like a good idea. I just feel like that movie is going to do so much heavy lifting that it will bog down the overall product. Hopefully it works out however they do it. Maybe Spiderman will do a lot of the heavy lifting, but it seems like it's own thing.

 

[Noname Given]

Matt Shakman told Collider (quote via io9) that the cuts made to the film were for the greater good:

“By the time you end up cutting it, you’re doing it for a reason,” Shakman told Collider. “You’re looking at the larger picture, and you’re able to make those cuts, because they make sense. And, ultimately, you know it’s for the greater good. It’s always, in the post process, hard to—you know, the forest and the trees, right? You have to constantly think about the bigger picture. This cast is amazing, and all of the supporting cast is amazing, and the work of the design team, and cinematography, these are tons of great scenes that would be wonderful to have in the film, but ultimately, just didn’t contribute to the best possible narrative.”​

​

From the sounds of it, we probably won't be getting any kind of extended cut (but no Marvel film has had one so that's not a surprise). I'm still hoping the Red Ghost sequence is released as a One-Shot and not just a bunch of deleted scenes.

Huh - Spiderman No Way Home (an MCU film) released an extended version to theatres with 11 more minutes of footage included.)

Spider-Man: No Way Home

Spider-Man: No Way Home is a 2021 superhero film, based on the Marvel Comics superhero of the same name. The film is a sequel to Spider-Man: Homecoming and Spider-Man: Far From Home, as well as a crossover/sequel to the Spider-Man trilogy and The Amazing Spider-Man duology. It is the...

marvelcinematicuniverse.fandom.com

 

[Mudd]

 

[Aragorn]

I suppose that studio's eagerness to invest in Extended Director's Cuts was driven by the commercial opportunity to sell additional copies of a film on various home video formats - Yes, you own Superman The Movie, but does it include Gene Hackman singing at the piano? Consequently, they're going to be less popular in an era where everything's eventually included in one subscription or another.

During the peak of DVDs, Disney re-released a bunch of their Touchstone/Hollywood movies as "unrated extended editions" by simply putting back a few deleted scenes without consulting with anyone involved in making the movie -- Con Air, Crimson Tide and Enemy of the State were the big ones.

When it comes to deleted scenes and run time, there's a difference between the filmmakers doing it and Harvey Weinstein cutting 45 minutes out just so the movie can have an extra showtime per day.

 

[Jeyl]

I don't know. Whenever a filmmaker says they cut scenes out because it "didn't serve the story", I think they're missing something. Yes, there are scenes that do not advance or add anything to the "story", but we're not just in it for the story, are we? What about character? Tone? Theme? Mood? Pacing? An animator once said that trimming out all the material just to serve the story is like removing all the fat from a steak. Fat is what gives the steak it's flavor.

Plus as a filmmaker, they don't have to have the experience of seeing this movie through the eyes of the general audience. They know EVERYTHING about the movie inside and out. I take the Lord of the Rings movies as an example. Peter Jackson declares the theatrical versions his preferred cuts, but he still gives the extended editions equal treatment and thank the entertainment gods for that. I always prefer the extended editions of those movies because, like any great steak, I love to savor the flavor.

So yeah. I think it would be nice to have an extended cut of Fantastic Four: First Steps. Not because I want a slower story, but because I enjoy being with these characters and wouldn't mind spending more time with them.

 

[Allyn Gibson]

I remember where I bought this comic.

It has a pretty clever idea at the heart of it -- Superman uncovers evidence that Galactus may be responsible for the destruction of Krypton, and he goes to the Marvel Universe and the Fantastic Four for answers.

It's not groundbreaking or anything, but I liked it a lot.

 

[The Nth Doctor]

Huh - Spiderman No Way Home (an MCU film) released an extended version to theatres with 11 more minutes of footage included.)

Spider-Man: No Way Home

Spider-Man: No Way Home is a 2021 superhero film, based on the Marvel Comics superhero of the same name. The film is a sequel to Spider-Man: Homecoming and Spider-Man: Far From Home, as well as a crossover/sequel to the Spider-Man trilogy and The Amazing Spider-Man duology. It is the...

marvelcinematicuniverse.fandom.com

..I honestly didn't know that and I need to watch it now!

 

[Starbreaker]

I loved everything about this movie and I thought Galactus looked amazing. I hope he's back at some point for a proper defeat.

 

[Mudd]

What's a "proper defeat?" Being eaten by zombies?

Galactus is as defeated as any Marvel villain who's not been decapitated by Chris Hemsworth.

 

[the G-man]

I don't know. Whenever a filmmaker says they cut scenes out because it "didn't serve the story", I think they're missing something. Yes, there are scenes that do not advance or add anything to the "story", but we're not just in it for the story, are we? What about character? Tone? Theme? Mood? Pacing? An animator once said that trimming out all the material just to serve the story is like removing all the fat from a steak. Fat is what gives the steak it's flavor.

All writing is about editing. Sometimes a creator decides less is more. Otherwise, one could easily end up with a rambling shaggy dog of a story that, in fact, cried out for editing.

 

[Jeyl]

All writing is about editing. Sometimes a creator decides less is more. Otherwise, one could easily end up with a rambling shaggy dog of a story that, in fact, cried out for editing.

What's wrong with a rambling shaggy dog of a story? I've been on this forum long enough to know that there are a few users who still prefer the 'Special Longer Version' of Star Trek: The Motion Picture, flaws and all. Who am I to say they're wrong for picking an edit that they get the most out of?

But you're right. I have seen movies where I feel like having certain moments be cut down would have made it feel like better movie, but the opposite can also be true. One day you're leaving the theater wondering why that movie felt so mediocre and empty, the next you're watching the Director's Cut and you realize that suddenly, everything clicks. What was confusing now clear and the climax is far more engaging. And there are even great character moments that were cut after the climax that, while it didn't move the story forward, were great moments in their own right. It's as if the movie remembered it had a message all along and it was finally able to tell it.

Art can be very subjective and sometimes one method of editing we don't like might actually have been the right move all along. I just hope if deleted material from Fantastic Four is ever released that it was the right call to make.

 

[DarrenTR1970]

What's wrong with a rambling shaggy dog of a story? I've been on this forum long enough to know that there are a few users who still prefer the 'Special Longer Version' of Star Trek: The Motion Picture, flaws and all. Who am I to say they're wrong for picking an edit that they get the most out of?

But you're right. I have seen movies where I feel like having certain moments be cut down would have made it feel like better movie, but the opposite can also be true. One day you're leaving the theater wondering why that movie felt so mediocre and empty, the next you're watching the Director's Cut and you realize that suddenly, everything clicks. What was confusing now clear and the climax is far more engaging. And there are even great character moments that were cut after the climax that, while it didn't move the story forward, were great moments in their own right. It's as if the movie remembered it had a message all along and it was finally able to tell it.

Art can be very subjective and sometimes one method of editing we don't like might actually have been the right move all along. I just hope if deleted material from Fantastic Four is ever released that it was the right call to make.

I can think of two examples where different cuts of the movie makes a big difference.

One - Dark City Director's Cut. Removes the opening narration by Keifer Sutherland, restores Jennifer Connolly's singing voice (it was dubbed in the movie), and by removing the opening narration, the director then went and shifted a few scenes around to push the reveal back.

Second - Dawn of the Dead Rough (or Assembly) cut.

George A. Romero put together a rough cut of the movie to show distributors at the Cannes Film Festival.

It's lacking the score by Goblin, and scenes run longer and different takes/angles are used for others.

George prefers the final Theatrical cut, while I prefer the Rough cut because it restores the dockyard confrontation with the renegade police officers and the longer montage of the survivors growing bored living in the mall.